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With a few analyzing footnotes.
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INITIAL PAROLE CONSIDERATION HEARING
STATE OF CALIFORNIA
BOARD OF PAROLE HEARINGS
In the matter of the Life
Term Parole Consideration CDC Number C-88440
Hearing of:
HARRY SASSOUNIAN
CALIFORNIA MEN’S COLONY-EAST
SAN LUIS OBISPO, CALIFORNIA
AUGUST 31, 2006
PANEL PRESENT:
JAMES DAVIS, Presiding Commissioner
ROLANDO MEJIA, Deputy Commissioner
OTHERS PRESENT:
HARRY SASSOUNIAN, Inmate
MARK GERAGOS, Attorney for Inmate
PATRICK SEQUEIRA, Deputy District Attorney
ENGIN ANSAY, Observer
DAVID SALTZMAN, Observer
Two Correctional Officers, Unidentified
CORRECTIONS TO THE DECISION HAVE BEEN MADE
No See Review of Hearing
Yes Transcript Memorandum
Robert Tootle Vine, McKinnon & Hall
INDEX
Page
Proceedings 1
Case Factors 9
Pre-Commitment Factors 35
Post-Commitment Factors 50
Parole Plans 82
Closing Statements 107
Recess 126
Decision 127
Adjournment 134
Transcriber Certification 135
--oOo--
P R O C E E D I N G S
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: This is an Initial Parole Consideration Hearing for Harry
Sassounian, CDC number C-88440. Today’s date is August 31, 2006 and we’re located at
California Men’s Colony-East. The inmate was received on June 29, 1984 from Los Angeles
County. The life term began on June 29, 1984 with a minimum eligible parole date of
October 19, 2007. Controlling offense for which the inmate’s been committed is murder
first, Case Number A375674A, and count one, Penal Code Section 187. The inmate received a
term of 25 years to life. This Hearing is being tape recorded and so for the purposes of
voice identification we will each state and spell our first and last name, spelling our
last name, and when it reaches you, sir, if you’d also give us your CDC number please.
So I will start and move to my right, I’m James Davis, D-A-V-I-S, Commissioner.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Rolando Mejia,
M-E-J-I-A, Deputy Commissioner.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Hampik (phonetic) Sassounian, S-A-S-S-O-U-N-I-A-N, C-88440.
ATTORNEY GERAGOS: Mark Geragos, G-E-R-A-G-O-S.
MR. ANSAY: Engin Ansay, I’m an observer.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Spell your last name, sir?
MR. ANSAY: A-N-S-A-Y.
ATTORNEY GERAGOS: You might want to spell your first name as well for the record.
MR. ANSAY: E-N-G-I-N.
MR. SALTZMAN: David Saltzman, S-A-L-T-Z-M-A-N, observer.
DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY SEQUEIRA: Patrick Sequeira, Deputy District Attorney, County of
Los Angeles.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And just for the record, also, if the two of you would also
indicate your connection, your official capacities, please?
MR. ANSAY: Yes sir, I am the Turkish Consul General in Los Angeles.
MR. SALTZMAN: And I’m counsel to the Turkish Embassy in Washington D.C.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right, thank you. Let the record also reflect that we’re
joined by two correctional officers here who are here for security purposes only and will
not be actively participating in this Hearing. Mr. Sassounian, in front of you, on that
blue laminated piece of paper, is the Americans With Disabilities Act. Would you please
read that aloud, sir?
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Hampig
Sassounian
at time of arrest |
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: “The American With Disability
Acts is a law to help people with disabilities. Disabilities are problems that make it
harder for some people to see, hear, breathe, talk, walk, learn, think, work, or take
care of themselves than it is for others. Nobody can be kept out of public places or
activities because of the disability. If you have a disability you have the right to
ask for help, to get ready for your Board of Parole Hearing, get to the Hearing, talk,
read, forms or papers, and understand the learning process. BPH will look at what the
you ask, excuse me, what you ask for to make sure that you have the disability that is
covered by the ADA and that you have asked for the right kind of help. If you do not
get help or if you don’t think you got the kind of help you need ask for a BPH 1074
Grievance Form. You can also get help to fill it out.”
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Very well, thank you. And according to our records, on
August 2, 2006, together with staff in the institution you reviewed and signed a Form
1073, indicating that you do not have any disabilities that would qualify under the
Americans With Disabilities Act?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: That’s true, sir.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right. And has anything changed since that time?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No sir.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right. You were able to read that without glasses?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Do you normally wear glasses?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Good for you. And you can hear me all right?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes sir.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And you walked here today, you got here under your own
steam?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: You feel healthy and ready to go?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes sir.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right. Is there any reason that you can think of
that you would not be able to actively participate in this Hearing?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No sir.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right. Counsel, are you satisfied with that?
ATTORNEY GERAGOS: I am.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right.
ATTORNEY GERAGOS: I do have an objection to observers being present during the --
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: We’ll get to the objections in just a moment, we’ll
let you raise that point. This Hearing is being conducted pursuant to Penal Code
Sections 3041 and 3042 and the rules and regulations of the Board of Prison Terms
governing parole consideration hearings for life inmates. The purpose of today’s
Hearing is to consider the number and nature of the crimes for which you were
committed, your prior criminal and social history, and your behavior and programming
since your commitment. We’ve had the opportunity to review your Central File and you
will be given an opportunity to correct or clarify the record as we proceed. We will
reach a decision today and inform you of whether or not we find you suitable for
parole and the reasons for our decision. If you are found suitable for parole the
length of your confinement will be explained to you. Because this is your first time
to have an opportunity to appear before the Board, before the Panel, and this is the
first time I’ve had the opportunity to see you, I do want to cover just a couple of
things, just to emphasize something. This is your first Hearing.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes sir.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And as we’ve said, it’s being tape recorded and
there will be a transcript produced as a result of this. No matter what happens after
today -- should you receive a date, then certainly this Hearing forms the foundation
for all further review.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: If you shouldn’t receive a date, and we’re certainly
a long way away from making either decision, then this would form the basis for all
future Hearings. So it’s just important that you be candid and honest with the
Panel.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I will.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: As we’ll cover in a moment, you do not have to admit
your offense or discuss your offense, and again we’ll cover that more in a moment.
But whatever you do choose to talk to the Panel about we just want you to be candid
and honest, all right?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes sir.
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PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Very well. Nothing that happens here today will change the
findings of the court. We are not here to retry the case, we are here for the sole purpose
of determining your suitability for parole. Do you understand that, sir?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: The Hearing will be conducted in basically two phases. First I
will discuss with you the crime for which you were committed as well as your prior criminal
and social history. Following that Commissioner Mejia will discuss with you your progress
since your commitment, your Counselor’s Report, your psychological evaluation, parole
plans, and any letters of support or opposition as they may exist. Once that’s concluded
the Commissioners, the district attorney and then your attorney will have an opportunity to
ask you questions. Questions that come from the district attorney will be asked to the Chair
and then you will respond back to the Panel with your answer. Before we recess for
deliberation the district attorney and then your attorney will be given the opportunity for
a final closing statement, followed by your statement, which should focus on your
suitability for parole. The California Code of Regulations states that, regardless of time
served, an inmate shall be found unsuitable for and denied parole if, in the judgment of the
Panel, the inmate would pose an unreasonable risk of danger to society if released from
prison. Now, you have certain rights. Those rights include the right to a timely notice of
this Hearing, the right to review your Central File and the right to present relevant
documents. Counsel, are you satisfied that your client’s rights have been met to date?
ATTORNEY GERAGOS: I am.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Thank you. You have an additional right and that’s to be
heard by an impartial Panel. You heard Commissioner Mejia and I introduce ourselves today.
Do you have any reason to believe that we would not be impartial?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No sir.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right. Counsel, you’re in agreement with that?
ATTORNEY GERAGOS: I am.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: You will receive a written copy of our tentative decision
today. That decision becomes effective within 120 days. A copy of the decision and a copy of
the transcripts will be sent to you. The Board has eliminated it’s appeals process. If you
disagree with anything in today’s Hearing you have the right to go directly to court with
your complaint. Once again you are not required to admit your offense or discuss your
offense. However, again, the Panel does accept the findings of the court to be true. All
right, Mr. Mejia, are we going to be working with anything from a confidential file today?
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Let me make sure. He does have confidential information but I don’t
think we’ll be using any for today.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right. If we do end up using any confidential information
during deliberation or elsewhere we’ll inform you of that. And I’m going to pass a
checklist of documents to both counsels. And if you’d take a look at that and make sure we’re
operating off the same list of documents please.
ATTORNEY GERAGOS: Okay. This looks right, yes.
DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY SEQUEIRA: And I’ve received the documents on the checklist as
well, thank you.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right, thank you. We’ll mark the -- (inaudible)
(recording abruptly stops for approximately 15 seconds, then re-starts)
UNKNOWN VOICE (assumed to be Attorney Geragos): (inaudible) for them to be here.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Observers are allowed under Title 15 if they are approved by
the Executive Officer and these two observers have been approved by the Executive Officer
and they will not be, they have no speaking role and are here for observation only and will
not detract from the Hearing itself. So I’m going to overrule your objection. Anything
else, counsel?
ATTORNEY GERAGOS: No.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right. Will your client be speaking with us today?
ATTORNEY GERAGOS: Yes.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right. Will you raise your right hand, sir? Do you
solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony that you give at this Hearing will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes sir, I do.
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Kemal
Arikan (1928-1982) |
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right. Without
objection we’re going to incorporate by reference a Court of Appeals document, pages
five through 31, and refer to the summary of the crime on the September 2006 Board
Report, starting on page one under “summary of crime” where it states:
“The victim was Kamil (phonetic) Arikan,
A-R-I-K-A-N, who was the Counsel General of the Turkish Consulate assigned to Los
Angeles. He was murdered on 1/28/82 at 9:50 a.m. at the southwest corner of Wilshire
Boulevard and Comstock Avenue and was murdered while en route to his office in a private
car. Cause of death was due to multiple gunshot wounds. Shortly after the murder a
telephone call was received at the office of United Press International in Los Angeles,
where the [caller] asked for the news desk, then made the following statement, quote:
‘I’m calling on behalf of Justice Commandos of Armenian Genocide. We just shot a
diplomat in Los Angeles. The revolutionary struggle began in 1975 with an attack against
Turkish diplomats, starting in Vienna and Paris. We have carried out 14 operations and
today we claim the responsibility of the attack in Los Angeles. These attacks are to
demand justice for genocide crime in Turkey in 1915. Our sole struggle, we are the
Justice Commandos of Armenian Genocide’ close quotes. This organization is described
as a covert group of young people of Armenian heritage who engage in assassination of
Turkish officials around the world and have claimed responsibility for assassinations in
Los Angeles, California, Boston, Massachusetts, and Lisbon, Portugal. Investigations
disclosed that two males were responsible for the homicide, one later identified as the
prisoner. Following the murder the suspects had entered a Chevrolet, license number
534EER. It was learned that the car was registered to the prisoner. Several hours after
the murder Pasadena police officers saw the car being driven by the prisoner at which
time he was taken into custody. Pursuant to a search warrant a number of items were
recovered from the car, including a .357 caliber bullet and a four page Armenian
Federation roster. The prisoner made no statement following his arrest. Since his arrest
he has admitted his participation in the murder to the jail inmates and reported that,
although he was the only suspect arrested, he was involved with two others. In a
statement to another County Jail inmate the defendant said he had been ordered to kill
the victim, who was the Turkish Consul General, by the Justice Commandos. He said that
he and his accomplices had checked out the victim prior to the murder and watched him to
obtain information on his daily routine. It was then decided to kill him and the
prisoner had remarked that they had quote ‘filled him full of bullets’ close quotes.
He said that he and another suspect were on the ground level and a second suspect was on
the building roof and the victim was killed while at the intersection in a car. Prisoner
told the inmate that the killing was done because the Turks had killed a lot of his
people and he wanted to get publicity for revenge for his people and would do it all
over again in the same manner. He used a nine millimeter pistol in the crime. Under the
prisoner’s version it states, quote ‘when I went back to court in 2002 I fully
admitted my role in the death of Kamil Arikan. I apologize for it. I was 19 years old at
the time and I am completely against violence. I deeply regret what I did and I wish I
could change everything, but unfortunately I can’t. Violence never pays and never
solves problems. During my incarceration I have learned that diplomacy is the way to
solve problems between people and countries.’”
So, did you commit this crime?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, I did.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And did you commit it in roughly the way that it’s
described in the reports?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Everything that inmate, jailhouse inmate, that’s absolutely all
false. I never confessed to that inmate. You know, it’s, everything that he said, I
never met that -- I think he uses Jeffrey Bush (phonetic) -- I never met that guy. It’s
completely false. It’s absolutely a lie. But I did confess. I do admit that I did
this. And I didn’t admit it in court and yes, I did do this crime.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Did you do this by yourself?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, me and one other person.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And has that other person ever been arrested?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, no.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Who is the other person?
ATTORNEY GERAGOS: The other person was identified as a Krikor Saliba (phonetic) and was
reported to have been killed in Lebanon approximately a year, or about two years after
the offense. [0] The gentleman, the portion of that
that you read, was a quote from a gentleman by the name of Jeffrey Bush, who was later
discredited as one of these jailhouse informants. There was a grand jury investigation
that was done subsequent to that to show that this use of informant testimony in LA
County was discredited. A number of the things that he had claimed Mr. Sassounian had
told him were not only physically impossible but he was not even in the same area as Mr.
Sassounian. That having been said, as Mr. Sassounian said, he’s not denying
culpability, it’s just -- and we’re not trying to re-litigate it -- it’s just that
there was an awful lot of litigation done on this and I think demonstrably shown that
this guy was trying to curry favor to get out.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: It says in there that I told him that I used a nine millimeter. I did
not use a nine millimeter, I used a .45 Wahdi (phonetic). But as far as I remember he
got, he’s even, his cellie came to court and said that they had a fight or two on
which one to tell on me because they got all my case from the newspapers.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Okay, well, let’s start with what you did do. So, how
did you plan this?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, I cannot -- is it okay if I tell you why I did it before I, I’ll
get to the point before, how I did it?
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Well, why don’t you go ahead and start and then we’ll
see where that goes. Go ahead.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, basically the reason was that ever since I was a child I had
heard of what the Turks had done to my people and the genocide and they butchered one
and a half million of my people because they were Christians and because they could not
convert my people, Armenian people, into Turks and Muslims. And they burned and
butchered one and a half million people. [1] But that
genocide in 1915, to me, at the time to 1982, was that the Turks still denied the
genocide and they will not confess and they completely took our properties, their
properties, their homes, their churches, and their businesses, and their bank accounts
--
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Okay, so you had a long history of that. I’m familiar
with all that, so you had a long history of that. And so what brought you to, were you
actually a part of this organization that’s described here?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, okay, the only thing I know was me and my friend, you know,
that it was just me and him. As far as the organization, I had no idea that we were part
of any organization, I had no party. After I was arrested, when I read in the paper that
there was a phone call made I was like, shocked, I had absolutely no idea about no
organization, no phone calls, and that’s the honest truth. You know, all I knew, it
was me and my friend, you know, my crimee, we planned this, nobody told us what to do,
how to do it --[2]
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: But you, when did you and your friend begin this planning
process?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, I could be off by a couple of weeks but I would say, like two,
three four weeks before it happened, I would say.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And what made you select this particular victim?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Okay, what me and my friend, my crimee, were thinking, were actually
going to Europe to do this because most of the crimes, the assassinations, were taking
place there. But what took us, our attention from there to Arikan, to the victim, was
that, like, few weeks before this happened Arikan had made a statement somewhere that
the genocide did not happen, that it was all lie. And like, we were going this way, he
just completely pulled us, you know, like brought us to him [3], you know, like he was, like, thumbing his nose at us and at
everybody, all these victims, our grandmothers and our mothers and --
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Did you know the victim in any way?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, absolutely no.
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PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So you never met him. How did you learn of the statement that
he’d made?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I think I, I either heard it from my crimee or I read it in the paper,
one of the two, I’m not sure.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So you didn’t attend a speech or anything like that, you
read it in the paper or you heard it from someone?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes. I heard it, I think, if I’m not mistaken, like he had a meeting
with some people or -- maybe even with the Armenian community somewhere where he publicly
came out and said, you know, it’s all a lie, that these people are a bunch or liars, that
they’re making this genocide up and that Turks never did anything bad to Armenian and,
something like that, you know, and that, we just completely turn our attention to him when
he said that.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right, but you’d already reached a decision that you
were going to do what when you went to Europe?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: That we probably were going to attack a diplomat over there.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So you were going to commit some crime in Europe?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, yes.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: When you say “attack” did you have a plan, a thought of
what that attack was?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: It was, it was all like a beginning, we didn’t know what, you know, we
was just thinking what to do. We felt --
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: You thought Europe would be more appropriate because that’s
where, from your point of view --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, everything was, yes, excuse me, everything was happening there and
we weren’t sure what we were doing yet. We were just, like thinking, you know, we were
thinking like these people spat at our face for, like 100 years or whatever, you know. As
the sons of Armenian people and all the disrespect, the humiliation that these people had
caused us, we felt like we should do something to these people back to show them that, you
know, hey, you know, you done all these inhuman things to our people that, we gonna, you
know, we gonna do something back to you, you know. [4]
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: You were forming this plan because of historical grievances
going back over 100 years, you say?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, yeah, what, what ticked me off, sir, is I knew the genocide and all
this horrible stuff, you know, before the assassination. What ticked me off was that, I
heard from that in the papers and I heard from friends that the Turks were bulldozing
Armenian churches and turning them into mosques and these were like, centuries old churches,
you know. And to Armenians, we were the first nation to become Christians, you know, and
these people will actually bulldoze a church that was like, that’s the complete insult to
us, you know, that these people, I mean, what kind of, we were thinking what kind of people
would bulldoze a church, you know. I mean, that’s like molesting a child, that’s like
the most peaceful and innocent thing that exists, you know, is a church, and these people
were just bulldozing them like, the hell with you, the hell with your country, the hell with
your churches, you know.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right. And were you active in politics in any other way?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Not at all. I mean, I like politics, and I like history and I like being
knowledgeable about it, you know. [5]
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Were you active in any kinds of organizations of any kind,
positive or negative?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I was a member of this youth organization called Armenian Youth
Organization which was, to me it was like a school because we did not, we were poor, you
know, when we came here we did not have enough money to go to Armenian school. So what we
did, there was Armenian club there with Armenian organizations and, to me it was like a
school, you know, -- [6]
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: It was a social sort of an organization?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, of course, yes.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: But it wasn’t a political organization?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No. Well, I wouldn’t say --
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: I guess what I’m getting to -- were you, you were offended
by these things that were happening?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes sir.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Were you writing letters to anyone to object to this or --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, no, I barely knew how to write, sir, I barely knew how to write when
I was out there. Even my own language, I quit my school when I was in the 4th grade in
Armenian school and even my Armenian reading was terrible, you know.
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PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right, so you were angry over these past ills and what
was currently happening and then when you understood that the victim had made a
statement of some kind that further insulted you, that’s when you decided to focus on
the victim?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: About how long in advance of the murder was that?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Like, again, I can’t give you an exact time limit. It could have
been two weeks or it could have been six weeks but it was somewhere around there.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And what did you do?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, what, me and my friend talked about that. When the victim said
this we completely took our attention to him and we, we decided that, we knew that they
had a consulate in Los Angeles, you know, it was obvious that. And we had to decide,
like, what route he was taken. We learned from the paper how these assassinations was
mostly taking place in Europe, that it was happening on the way to work, you know. So
one day -- we knew also that he was crossing Wilshire somewhere, you know. So one day we
were, like just couple of days before this or it might have been the day before, I’m
not sure, we went down there and, what I did, I went to the corner of Wilshire and
Comstock. We knew that he was coming from that direction and turning on Sunset, I mean,
I’m -- forgive me, but I don’t remember the streets any more, you know. But the
next, it was like Comstock and then Wilshire and then there was another major street
further down, next block, my friend went to that corner, you know. And on the next block
the other way there was the Wilshire Hotel, I think. So what I did, I went to Wilshire
and Comstock corner and my friend went to the corner on the other side, which was a
bigger, more major boulevard. And I was there for like a half an hour or so when I saw
that, you know, I knew that he was driving a white, LTD I think. He came, you know, when
I saw him and I recognized his face, I had seen it somewhere in the papers or something
and I knew that it was him as soon as he came and turned the corner, you know. I went
back to the next boulevard and I said hey, he’s coming from this corner, you know,
that’s how I found him.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: How many times did you scout the location?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I swear to God it was just one day, that was it.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: You were able to see him coming there. How did you know he
would come that way again?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, we, I don’t know, I would hate to use the word luck but, you
know, when we saw him coming from that area we thought that was his regular route, you
know.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: What did you do then?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Then we talked about it, should we do it, shouldn’t we do it? And
is it right to do it, is it not right to do it? And, you know, we thought that, with all
honesty, sir, we thought that these, you know, we thought that there was a big gap
between the Turkish government and mostly any other governments in the world, whether
they be American, French or English or whatever. We thought that, all these horrible
things that these people committed against our people, not just the genocide that, to
that day they were occupying chunks of Armenian territory, you know, like 70 percent of
Armenian --[7]
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So you had a discussion abut the right or wrong of --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, yeah, me and my crimee talked about it and we talked, you know,
is it right to do it. And the subject came up that, if me and you had a conflict and,
let’s say, that suit you were wearing was mine and I could prove it that it was mine
and I went to the police and told them “hey, man, that suit is mine.” And he told me
to go to hell and I went to the Marines and to the, to everybody else, and they told me
to go to hell --. And I came to the point that, hey, I tried everything peacefully to
get that jacket [8] because it belongs to me, you
know. And you told me “you know what, to hell with you”, you know, “I’m gonna
keep it,” that, you know, of course in this case it wasn’t a jacket, this was our
homeland, this was our dignity --
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So you had reached a decision that you were going to
commit this crime?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: That these people, in all honestly, I thought at that time that these
people were less than humans [9], that, you know,
they were inhumane, and the Turkish government had no soul, that they had no honor, and
they had no conscience that they would do something to a small number of people, so --
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: I get it, that you were very angry about this and --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, I was very, very angry, sir.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And this anger goes very, very deep.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, it was.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So you reached a decision. Did you reach it that night?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: You know, sir, I’m not going to, I don’t know the detail, to you,
I can barely recall details, you know.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Where did you get the weapon?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: My crimee bought it.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And just the one, how many guns did you go armed with?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Before this, you know, I wanted to use a nine millimeter because I
had shot nine millimeters before. I had never used a .45 in my life. And when my crimee
brought a .45 I was unhappy. I said, you know, you want me to use this, it’s a heavier
gun, it has more power, and I didn’t like it and I was upset about it, you know. But I
didn’t say nothing but I just didn’t like it, you know. So he brought the gun to me.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So you don’t know where it came from? He just brought it
to you?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, I -- it could have came from anywhere.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Where did you use a nine millimeter before? Where had you
used a gun before?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well I, you know, we went target practicing before, you know.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Was the target practicing in preparation for this event?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, not at all, this thing, sir, from beginning to end was, like at
the most, and again forgive me for, you know, not knowing the exact fact but it was -
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: It was right around six weeks.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, it could have been two months, it could have been two weeks,
and that’s the honest truth, I just don’t remember, but the shooting thing, it wasn’t
in preparation for nothing. It was just, you know, practice, just to know how to shoot
gun, you know. [10]
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right. So on the day of the crime what did you do?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, again, I don’t remember detail but I’m, you know, I woke up
and I call my friend or he call me, again I’m not sure, and I went and picked him up,
you know, and we, when I picked him up we went there and we were very nervous because,
we, you know, we never done anything like this before, you know, and we want to still
kind of think should we do it shouldn’t we do it, you know? But, you know, and we went
to Hollywood because we were so nervous. I think either me or, you know, I don’t drink
but I think it was he may have recommended that we took a small drink of some kind of a,
you know, a brandy or something, you know, I don’t drink so I don’t know nothing
about drinks, you know. And we went to a liquor store, I think it was the (inaudible)
behind Hollywood Boulevard. I think it was near that Capitol Records building; it was a
liquor store a couple of blocks away from there. We went and got a, two small bottles
like, this big -- little cute bottles, you know, I like the shape, I bought one just to
have one, you know. And he bought one too and he opened one and I took it, like small
sip, it barely even touch my lips because I don’t think, I don’t like nothing about,
I had drank a couple of margaritas in my life and that was it, you know. So I drank it
like, barely touch my, I didn’t like the taste, I think it taste sugary or something
and I didn’t like, and I gave it to him and he took, like, two very small sips, you
know, we weren’t intoxicated or even, not close to anything like that, you know. And
after we left there we went to the street, to Wilshire and Comstock, and I park my car
like a block away from there I think, you know. And we went to the corner and we waited
there, you know, I took one corner and he took another corner. When we went there, you
know, we had a few things in our mind, you know, that I can know full in detail that, we
talk about things like what if there was somebody else in the car? And the answer was
absolutely there was someone else in the car, we was not going to do this. We also
considered what if there was a cop car behind it. We weren’t gonna do it. We had it in
my mind, sir, that we were only there for one purpose and that was to assassinate Arikan.
We were not going to point our gun at anybody else or, anybody else besides him who, in
our mind, was innocent target. And even somebody pull out Uzi from a corner and start
shooting at us we were not going to shoot back to them because to us it was unforgivable
sin, you know, crime, to shoot anybody else except this government official of the
Turkish government. And we also had in mind that there was a good possibility that he
could have a bullet-proof vest on, you know, so we talked about that I remember, you
know. And also possibility of him having a bodyguard, you know, we talked about that,
what we’d do if there was a bodyguard, so, you know, we talked about this and we went
down there and we knew that, if there was bodyguard there would be Turkish bodyguards,
you know. At least we hoped it would be, you know. So when we went down there I took
that one corner and he took the other corner and we waited there, I don’t know, again
it could be couple of minutes, it could be 15 minutes, I don’t recall. I know we were
very nervous, we were very upset. And in my mind and I’m sure in his mind we kept
going should we do this, shouldn’t we do this? And to me --
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PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: It wasn’t a conscious conversation, it wasn’t an out loud
conversation that you --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, no, we weren’t talking back and forth, you know, this was in my
mind, you know. But we were looking at each other of course, like, you know, because he was
there across the street. Then I saw, a few minutes after we were there I saw him coming with
his car and I knew his face, you know, I, he was maybe, like 50 yards away and I knew it was
him and I did not see nobody else in the car, you know, and I had the gun in my belt here
and I turned around and pulled the gun out and kind of put it behind my back and when he got
close enough, I don’t know, maybe he hit the wall, I don’t know, I stepped outside the
curb, you know, like I was gonna walk across or something. And when he saw me he slowed
down, that’s when I pulled the gun and I think I shot like three shots, maybe four shots,
I don’t know. At the same time my crimee started shooting from across the street, which
would be like his side, the driver’s side, you know. And after I shot I went next to the
window, having in my mind that he might have a bulletproof vest on, you know, and I shot
like two, maybe three more shots from next to the door, next to the window from the
passenger side. And after that we ran behind the car and went up the street.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So you fired your first few shots and then -- did the car keep
coming forward or did you walk up to a parked car?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, I think, when he saw me pull a gun out and point at him he hit the
brakes hard, you know, he hit the brakes pretty hard. And I think maybe the car stop like, I
don’t know, I’m just guessing again, 10, 15, 20 feet from me. This is, again, just a
guess, you know.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So you fired and then walked up and fired --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: From the passenger side.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And your crime partner was also firing -- was he still firing
then?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, to be honest I barely, you know, I was so dazed out, I was so lost
that I don’t even, but I know, I saw him in the area but I don’t remember the exact
shots he took, I don’t remember what angles he took and stuff but I was, you know, I was
gone, you know.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So then did the two of you join up after that?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, we went, like, let’s say this was the car, and I went this side
and crossed the Comstock to the side of the street that he was, that side would be closer to
him, you know. We went back to that side and we started running and when we were running I
noticed that there was this car following us, you know, like, to me it sounded like a stick
shift, you know. And this car was following us, it was obvious, you know, because the car
was, you know, making a real effort to follow us and when I heard the car going like that I
almost said oh, man, it could be the bodyguard. And I went and bent down, like that, and I
was gonna shoot him, you know, thinking it was a bodyguard, but the guy looked like an
American guy, you know, and it was absolutely out of the question for me to shoot any
Americans or anybody innocent, you know, and it didn’t look like the guy had a gun or
anything so I just kept running. And I remember there was a particular, this young girl with
a baby carriage there too, you know, and I was, kept worrying about her before the incident
took place because I was saying in my mind ah, come on, girl, hurry up, hurry up, because I
did not want her to witness this, you know. And she was going up the street like, I was
worried about the angle that I might be shooting --
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: This was prior to the shooting?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, prior to the shooting I was worried about this young girl, if she
was in the angle that I was gonna shoot I wasn’t gonna do it because I wasn’t gonna let
this young girl get shot, you know. But after she reached the point she was, like, way to
the side, and I knew she wasn’t going to be --
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Let’s get back to what happened. After the shooting now, and
you’re running away?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, and this car, and I knew this guy was American and I just left him
alone and just kept running and we turned the street corner and there was, like, a couple of
streets away there was, I don’t know, there was a house there and we went out the front
yard and there was, like, grasses there and stuff, you know, and we took the guns and we
were wiping and I remember my crimee saying, “hey, Hampit” -- that’s my Armenian name
-- “that guy is looking at us, he’s writing something down”, you know. And he was like
standing to the side of me and the guy, he was right behind me so I couldn’t see it so I
turned around and I saw this olderly (sic) guy, you know, writing stuff down, you know, and
I just turned back and my crimee said “what should we do” and I said “we can’t do
nothing, what can we do, he’s an American, you know, we’re not going to shoot him, that’s
for sure, you know” so, and we just took our guns and we wiped it on our clothes, you
know, wiping the fingerprints off of course, you know, and we threw them out in the ivies,
in the grass, and we just jump in my car and we left.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Okay. And when you were arrested?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Okay. I went home and I knew I had to work that day. I used to, I work at
night, you know. And I went home and, I think I fell asleep, I’m not sure, you know, I
probably didn’t but I know I was in bed, you know, and -- again, I don’t remember what
time it was, maybe it was afternoon or something. I got up and I think I probably drank
coffee or something or a tea and got in my car and I was going to work. That’s when I saw
the CO, you know, cops, that surrounded me.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: What did you and your crime partner talk about after the
killing?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: The only thing that stand out in my mind, sir, that talk, you know, was,
you know, what we did, you know, was we happy with what we did, was it right to do it? And
with all honesty, sir, I can’t say that at that point that we regretted what we did. We
were just, like saying you know what, if these people keep think they can do all this shit
to us, you know, then they got this coming, you know. That’s what, I’m not going to lie
to you, that’s what I felt.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So at that time did you feel like you’d been successful?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, we didn’t know yet if he had died or not, you know, and I think
he turned the radio on and I think he went to the news station, you know. And on the news
they said that a Turkish diplomat had just been assassinated. And when the word “assassinated”
was mentioned that, you know, I think him or I, maybe, said that that means that he died,
you know, assassinated. They didn’t say he was shot, they said he was assassinated, that
means he was dead, you know. And, again, I’m not going to lie to you, at the time I
probably say you know what, we did not fail, you know, we succeeded, you know. And I’m not
going to lie to you at that time --
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So at that time you were happy about what occurred?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, I would be lying if I didn’t. At the time I said you know what,
we succeeded in doing this, you know.
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PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Did you talk with anyone else, communicate that to anyone
else?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, I never talked about this until I was in court in 2002. Anybody
who said, old jailhouse snitches or anybody said I said anything -- I mean, I had
cellies for years who told me everything about their crime and everything and they would
literally tell me how come you don’t talk about yours? And I never told them.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So this occurred in 1982. And was it in 2002, that was the
first time you actually admitted to doing this?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, I believe so, yes.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Why did it take so long?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, because, the key reason was the appeals, you know, and that, we
were still appealing the courts and my attorney, whether it was my appellate attorney or
his father, his father was originally attorney in 1982, you know, in court. As a
prisoner you just don’t talk about your case, you know, and that’s --
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So those were your instructions from your attorney, not to
--
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, my attorney but also I believed that, in prison, you just don’t
talk about it, you know. And pretty much everybody already knew my case, almost anybody
on the yard knew who I was in.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Did you just not talk about it or did you ever offer an
alternative story? Did you ever say --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, sir, I do not lie, you know, because to me lying to you is
disrespecting you, you know. You may ask me something and I would not answer but if I,
whatever I answer I will not lie to you because it’s not in my nature to lie to
people.[11]
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Did you ever offer an alternative story?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, I just won’t talk about it.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right. Are there any other details that we haven’t
talked about, in terms of the commitment offense, that you believe are important for
this Panel to understand, before we move on to other things?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, you mean, this is nothing to do how I feel about this now, this
is --
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: No, no, we’ll get to that here in a moment, yeah. This
is just about the details of the crime or anything that you think is important that you
want to clarify.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Nothing that stands out, no.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right, if you think of something as we move along feel
free to offer that as well. All right, in terms of your prior arrests, when did you come
to the United States?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I think I was 13 and a half, maybe 14.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Were you ever in trouble in your home country?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, no, I mean, I was just ditching schools and stuff, and that’s
it.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And no arrests as a juvenile in the United States?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right. And you have an arrest in 1981 that was
rejected by the prosecutor and then -- and that was in January of ’81 -- and then in
October of ’81 you were arrested for forged credit cards and you received 36 months of
probation and 20 days in jail. Why had you forged a credit card?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Okay, I’m going to tell you, sir. I had a friend from high school,
it was simple as this. He told me that he was using a stolen credit card and he
challenged me, hey, you want to go buy something? Like an idiot I said I did, you know,
I will. He challenged me, it was like a dare to me, you know. And I went to the arcade
to buy one or two shirts and I got busted. I never had forged anything in my life before
that, I never had a stolen card in my life, it was just that one incident, I swear to
God to you, and that was it.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Okay. And that’s what you bought was some shirts?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, I tried to buy a couple of shirts, I think maybe pants, I don’t
remember. But it was just $50 or $60 worth of stuff, I’m not sure, but it was a small
amount of money.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Okay. And personal factors say the prisoner was born, one
of several children. How many siblings do you actually have?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I have three brothers and two sisters.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And where do they live?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: They live in Pasadena and Glendale.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So they’re all in the United States now?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Do you keep in contact with them?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: You were born in Beirut, Lebanon.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: On January 1, 1963.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes. Well, that’s not exactly true about the date of the birth, but
I was born, I was born in a house and nobody wrote the date down but I think it’s
generally true. But I think I was actually born in the beginning of March somewhere.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Oh, okay. I’ll look at the file later on, but --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: They all say January --
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: This is your official date of birth.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, for some reason they gave me the news there, I don’t know why.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Okay. One of his paternal great-grandfathers was in a 1915
struggle between the Turks and Armenians and was killed, together with six of his
children. One of the survivors of the defendant’s paternal grandfather fled to
Lebanon. The family immigrated to the United States in 1977 and these events
crystallized the prisoner’s father’s political interest and his subsequent life. [12]His mother worked as a cook and the children were
provided supervision by the paternal grandparents and the family was described as
impoverished. It was also reported that the prisoner’s father is an alcoholic and was
physically abusive to members of the family. On 10/6/80 the prisoner’s brother Haroot
(phonetic) Sassounian firebombed the residence of Kamil Arikan [13], the victim in the present offense, the Turkish Consul General of
the United States. The victim and his wife were present at the time of the firebombing,
which occurred at about 4:00 a.m. Despite extensive damage no one was injured. The
prisoner attended Pasadena High School. Did you complete high school?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, I quit at 10th grade.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: 10th grade. Although he was said not to be a good student
at the time, the murderer was working as a security guard for an Armenian-run company
and was living with his parents. Is that accurate about your brother’s participation?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, he --
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: As far as you know?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, he was convicted of it, I guess it was true.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: I’m just asking you, from your perspective?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, me and him never talked about it, me and my older brother, we
were completely, I mean we talked but we never hung around together or anything.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Did these actions influence you at all?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, he got arrested after me. As far as him doing that he never
told me he did anything like that. [14]
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PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right. Was your father’s history an influence for you as
well?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: You mean as far as being a drinker and stuff?
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Yes.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, I wouldn’t say it but, you know, I knew he was like, a loser, you
know, he was always --
[Thereupon, the tape was turned over.]
-- as far as my father goes, you know, I was never close to him and, you know, I have a lack
of respect for him because he’s, all his life he’s been a lazy man and been a drunk and
he’s been an embarrassment to the family.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: What about the family history and so forth? Is that --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, I’m not going to make no excuses. This act, you know, I’m not
going to blame nobody else, it was me and it was my decision and I was saying I made the
decision, you know.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Yeah, but I was talking about, because you were saying some of
the things that, the history of a part of this was your particular family’s history
especially influential for you as well?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, it was, as far as the genocide, yes.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Anyone else in your family, aside from your brother, have any
problem with law enforcement?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, I think I heard that one of my oldest brothers was arrested for
trying to pick up a prostitute one time, I’m not sure.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Nothing serious outside of your other brother’s --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, I don’t think so.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Okay. How did your father’s alcoholism manifest itself? Was
there any abuse?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: The abuse was not physical. He never hit us, he never hit me or my
brothers or sister, he was just, you know, he’d yell and scream pretty much, that was it.
And he never brought any food to the table, he never worked, he never -- supposedly he was
supposed to be working for the government but he never went to work on anything, you know.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: How many different places in the United States did you live
when you first came here?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: When we first got here we lived with my grandfather, my father’s
father, for, I don’t know, a few months maybe, I’m not sure. Then we moved. We moved a
few blocks away to a Hill and Washington corner, in Pasadena. And after that we moved to
Hill and Walnut, I think, --
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Virtually all of the time you spent was in the greater Los
Angeles area?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, it always was like a few blocks area. Always in Pasadena.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: You went to public school?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, I went to John Muir High School.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: When you came here did you speak English?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, a little bit, yes. But in Lebanon I used to go to Armenian school
and we used to take English, and I knew, like, this is a chair, this is a table, how are
you, and stuff like that. But I understood more than I spoke.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: And you said you had trouble writing in your own language --?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, I was not a good student, never have been, you know, and as far,
you know, well, of reading books and history and stuff, but as far as writing and as far as
studying I’m not good at it. I just, I lose interest, you know, like -- let’s say when I
did, homework to do, I’ll just lose, like 20 percent of the way I’ll just lose interest
in it, you now. I’ve always been, I love working, you know, tell me to knock down this
building or something or do this whole huge garden, you know, I love doing it, I just --
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Physical labor better than the other part?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, exactly sir, yes.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: But you’re able to read -- well, I think your reading level,
as I recall, was 8.9 or something.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, now I can, of course, it’s much better now that it used to be,
yes.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: All right. Is there anything that we haven’t talked about,
in terms of your life prior to the incident offense itself, anything to do with the criminal
history, anything we’ve already talked about, any particulars about the crime that you
think is important for the Panel to understand that we haven’t covered?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, one thing, sir. In that, one of the thing that I was sentenced for,
I think, there was a fighting there that says I had a weapon. There was no weapon, you know,
they --
ATTORNEY GERAGOS: I’m -- just prior to your incarceration.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Well, I think he’s talking about, there was an arrest in ’81
that was dismissed, so we’re not going to talk about it.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, it was reject. I saw it in the paper there was weapon. That’s
absolutely not true. The only thing I had in my paper was leaflets or some kind of papers,
you know.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Is there anything else that we haven’t talked about that you
feel is important for the Panel to understand?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: all right. If you think of something as we go along feel free
to say “I forgot about this” or something reminds you, let us know.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Okay.
PRESIDING COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Commissioner, do you have any questions?
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Yeah, so I won’t forget it. We were talking about the
commitment offense. You actually took responsibility for your actions in 2002?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, yes.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: And I heard that, the issues why you were somewhat in denial of
the crime since 1982 because of the pending appeal and legal counsels and --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, I mean, I knew I did it and I was, you know, I know how I felt, I
just couldn’t talk about it.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: What brought you to the conclusion to say hey, you know what, I’m
owning up to this, I’m going to take responsibility to the crime? What motivated you to do
that?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well sir, with all honesty, once I passed the age 40 it’s like, I wasn’t
young man any more, you know, and I started, you know, my whole mentality of thinking,
pretty much about everything, about life, about politics, about family, about everything, it
just swung around, you know, and I was like, you know, I did not see things like I used to
think. Like ten years ago if you walked up to me and told me, you know, hey screw you, I
would probably hit you, you know. But now I don’t think like that anymore.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: So when did you actually start thinking about taking
responsibility for the action?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, you mean when did I start feeling bad about it? I would say about
--
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: That’s close, yeah.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I would say about a good ten years ago, maybe more. But I just couldn’t
talk about it, you know, because of the pending appeals and stuff. I was just, you know, I
just wouldn’t talk about it.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: So, do you still have the hatred that you had before, at the time
when you said --?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, no. The hatred, sir, to me, I feel sorry for them, that’s what I
would say now. Because as far as the history goes, as far as the knowledge goes, I knew that
these people done that to Armenia and I know that they owe an apology for what they did and
I know by not them doing it. I just feel sorry for them that they would lie to their own
people about their own history, you know.
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DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: You were not somewhat influenced from some sort of -- I’m
not very familiar about how the court went, that you were, the overturning of the life
sentence without parole, possibility of parole, and it was changed to 25 years to life
with parole. Was that a motive for you to own up and take responsibility for the crime?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, I think I’d be lying if I said to you that it had absolutely
no effect on it, I’m sure it did. But it wasn’t the sole reason, I mean, maybe it
was like a third of it, and I’d be lying if I said no, you know. In other words, if I
had my prior sentence still and I was still appealing then I probably wouldn’t be
talking about it, you know, and I’d be lying to you if I said I would, you know.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: No, you know, this is speculation but I’m thinking about,
we’re looking at insight and your -- so if this thing didn’t change and you were
still without possibility of parole, how would you handle this? Are you going to keep
silent or you just -- what are you going to do?
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Well, as a human being, of course, life without means, you
know, you won’t get out, you know. As a human being, no matter who it is, I’m sure
that as a human being they would hope that one day they would walk out of prison, you
know. And in order to have their faith I know that, in prison I knew that I couldn’t
walk out with life without, I mean, of course, directly and indirectly I, of course that
crossed my mind that, you know, that if I still had life without I probably wouldn’t
confess to it, hoping that some day to have a hope of walking out.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: So you’re not going to own up to it if nothing has changed
in your sentence? You were going to keep silent?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: If it hadn’t changed I would, likely so, yes.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: I appreciate your candidness, sir, I really do. [15]And the next thing is, what we’re looking at here is your relapse
prevention. Are you going to re-offend again if we cut you loose in the streets? And
what I want to find out from you --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I’m sorry, I didn’t get that part.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Relapse prevention, which means for you to re-offend and do
the same thing again.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Oh, then that’s not going to happen, sir.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: And the question I’m asking from you, sir, is what would
guarantee me or the Commissioner here that if we let you go that you would no longer
practice whatever your politics is or --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Okay. I will tell you several of the reasons, sir. Most of all, the
Armenian, all political assassinations against Turks has stopped for 23 years now. The
last one I remember that I read that it happened was in ’83. [16] So nothing has happened since 1983. All political assassinations
against Turkish diplomats has ceased. That’s one. Second of all, I’m completely
against violence, because I have, you know, I have learned that hey, you know, if I beat
you up you’re going to beat me up, my son’s going to beat you up, your son’s going
to, your grandson’s going to beat -- it just doesn’t go anywhere, you know, it’s
just, it’s like a barbaric way of solving problems. It just doesn’t get solved, you
know. And I see on TV, you know, the Israeli conflict and every, you know, it just doesn’t
get solved, you know, the only way that we going to reach a settlement is peacefully,
you know. And again, the violence has stopped for 23 years. And plus when I was out
there, sir, Armenia, my country [17], was still in
the Soviet Union, so Armenian people had no president, they had no prime minister, they
had no foreign minister, we had nobody to speak for the Armenian nation, you know. But
now we have, Armenia has been independent since ’91, I believe, so we have a
president, you know what, it’s his problem, it’s not my problem, you know. Of course
I naturally care about my people, you know, but the problem is -- back then I thought it
was my problem. I thought as a son of Armenian people that I should step up and do
something to these governments but now, I’m tired now, I don’t, I’m against
violence, and this problem, sir, it’s Armenia’s problem now. They have a prime
minister, they have a foreign minister, they have a, you know, a president. Let them
worry about it. I’m tired, I’m way older than what I was and I, you know -- they
couldn’t drag me into this thing no matter what they tried, you know, I’m --
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Even if there’s, if none of the -- your first reason was,
there’s no more assassination?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, as far as the violence, yes.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: It stops in 1983, right?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, I believe so.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: And that’s your reason, because it stopped -
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, no, my reason is because I’m against violence, that’s the
reason, you know.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: So even if it starts again, are you going to get involved
with it?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, hell no, I’m not getting involved with it. I learned my lesson,
man, I’ve been here 25 years, you know, I’ve learned my lesson. I’m not a 19 years
old idiot any more.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: How do you feel abut the victim that you shot?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I feel bad for him. I feel terrible for him, and his family, you
know. I think he had a wife and a daughter, you know, two daughters. They lost their
husband and their father and, you know, it’s terrible, man. I mean, how would I feel
if somebody shot my Dad, you know. I would feel terrible. I mean, leaving aside my Dad’s
thing, you know. But of course, you know -- I have no excuses, man, it was a terrible
thing I did and it was a terrible, you know, and I feel real bad for his wife and
daughters, you know, and I wish I could do something to somehow repair, but there isn’t,
you know, what can I do except I can apologize, you know.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: And -- well, if I remember -- go ahead.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I don’t know if this is relevant, sir, but I do have an immigration
hold, you know, like, I know most criminals that you guys let out, you know, they go
back to the street and the majority of them come back, you know. But I don’t know if
you know, it’s in the papers that I got immigration hold and I ---
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Oh, no, it doesn’t --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Okay, I’m just saying, if --
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: I don’t view that as part of my deliberation in my mind,
whether I should give somebody parole or not. It’s not an issue to me.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Okay.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: I’ll go through your post-conviction. This is actually your
Initial. If I remember everything, I will ask you some questions. So I will be covering
your institutional adjustment since you were accepted to the California Department of
Corrections. That was in 1984.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: And you were received at CIM Chino in 1984, June 29, 1984.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: And so I’ll look at your incarceration history, I’ll look
at your disciplinary history, your education, and all your post-conviction factors.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Okay, sir.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: So we’re going to start with your housing. You were housed
in Folsom in 1984. In 1989 it was Tehachapi 4A; 1991, Tehachapi 4B; 1993 CSP-Lancaster;
1996 Tehachapi 4B; 1997 CSP-Lancaster; and 2006 you came in here.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, I think you left out San Quentin, I was in San Quentin.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: You were in San Quentin, okay.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes. I was in San Quentin from ’85 to ’87. I was in Folsom for
just a few days and they didn’t want me there, they said you’re too young to be
here.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Yeah, in ’84 you went to San Quentin and then you went to,
in ‘89, to New Folsom.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Oh yeah, New Folsom, I went to New Folsom for two years, ’89 to ’91,
and then ’91 I went to --
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: In ’91 you went to Tehachapi, but you went there in ’89
too, right? Tehachapi?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Okay, excuse me, I was in San Quentin from ’85 to ’87, then ’87
to ’89 I was in New Folsom, then ’89 through ’93 I was in Tehachapi, from ’93 to
’97 I was in --
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: You got a good memory.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
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DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: I’m looking at your paper record.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, prisons have an effect on us.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Yeah, that is close, but that’s approximation. I’m going to
go with what it says here but you’ve got a good memory. I did miss San Quentin. It says
that you were in San Quentin 11/3/1984 and then you went to 1/20/87 you went to New Folsom
and then you went to Tehachapi in ’89.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: That’s, yes, I missed that, thank you for that. And then we’re
going to go to -- you have some assignments that you have been assigned to during those
years. Vocational Machine Shop; Vocational Sheetmetal; Vocational Landscaping; you were a
Clerk; you worked at the Industries; Culinary Porter; Vocational Masonry; Vocational
Electronics; Vocational Drafting with average work reports on file. So you had all those
work assignments?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I think, I remember pretty much everything except Clerk, I don’t
remember being a Clerk. I can’t type or -- I don’t remember that one.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: You did have your GED in 1990, which is good.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, I did.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: You got it in prison on January 18, 1990. And you have, the
highest score that I’ve seen on your GPL is 10.1.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: You completed a Silkscreen in 1990.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Is there any other vocation in the prisons that you’ve
completed?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: You know, I don’t think I completed them but I was part of, few hours
either transfer or, I think they shut a couple of them down.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: I got a couple here that says you completed it with A grades.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, I don’t, to be honest, I took those classes and, you know, it’s
been a long time and I can’t remember a lot of them.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Yeah, with custody level of Medium A and a score of, mandatory 28
score.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: So now, when it comes to your vocation, I know, I heard that you
were a security guard before you went to prison.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, I think I worked for two, three, four weeks.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: What other skills did you have before you went to prison? What
other skills do you have? In order for you to be employed and make money.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I worked gardening, I worked plumbing, I worked gas stations. I’m a
pretty quick learner and I love working. I’ve been working since I was eight years old and
I haven’t stopped working yet, even in prison, you know. And every --
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: The reason I’m asking you that, Mr. Sassounian, is if we give
you a parole we want to make sure that you’re able to provide for yourself, that you make
the money so you don’t commit crimes. So my question is, other than those experiences that
you had before you were incarcerated, were you able to prepare yourself on the streets and
in here in order for you to be able to be meaningfully employed?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Sir, I’m, coming from a poor family I’ve not only been working I’ve
been supporting my family since, as eight years old. Whatever I make I used to give half of
it to my Mom and I continued like that until I was arrested. And I’ve been working in here
all the time that I’ve been arrested.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Where are you assigned right now?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I’m assigned in shoe factory right now.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: When did you start it?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I started three months ago.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Three months ago. Do you have your supervisor’s report?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Okay, thank you. And you have satisfactory to above average work
report. That is good. You’ve been assigned there three months. Are you going to be staying
there for awhile, learn the trade?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, I love the job, sir, you know.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: “Four months, requires minimum supervision, quiet, hardworking,
positive attitude.” That’s very good.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Thank you, sir. I also been taking all these classes --
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Okay, good, I’m going to that. Because I’m looking at your C
File.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, and Mark, I think you got something too, right? I am also
participating in this, it’s called (inaudible) Convicts, reaching out to people in
Lancaster. And they used to bring troubled kids to us from Lancaster or from Watts and
everywhere else and we used to school these children what’s the, you know, criminal life
doesn’t pay, you know, they doing drugs and stuff, you know, we used to lecture them
against it. We can, you know, guide them differently, you know.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: This record, there’s a chrono here 12/22/05 that you were, you
participated in the Convicts Reaching Out To People.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: The Youth Diversion Program. This is in Lancaster.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes sir.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: From July 2005 to December 2005. Are you also on the Honor Yard?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, I was on the Honor Yard for, like three years I believe, maybe more.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: How do you become housed in the Honor Yard?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: They came up with this program in Lancaster that older inmates who are
not gang members, who are not violent, they don’t have a violent history and who do not
use drugs, we had to sign a chrono that we want to go there and a lot of the convicts, in
other words the gangster, didn’t like the program, you know, they looked down on people
who went to that yard. And I wanted to be part of that because I’m not a gang member, I
don’t do drugs, I don’t drink and I don’t, you know, I went over there and we had to
agree that they could drug test us at any time they want, you know, and we had to sign
papers for that. And I loved it, you know --
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Can you give this to us so that -- we’ll give it back to you.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Of course, you can keep, I got one more I think in the house.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Okay. And you have completed you’re Anger Management Course
offered by the California Men’s Colony Education Department at the Correctional Learning
Network on August 3, 2006.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: And you also took courses on Success From the Inside Out Series,
Transition, Life Skills, Anger Management.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes. And I also got this.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: And also another CLN certificate of completion. This is almost
the same --.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I think one of them is the Victim Awareness.
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DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: From August 2006 and one was from July 2006. Okay, this was
two different classes here.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Yeah, Victim Awareness, and the other was Life Skills and
Anger Management. So that’s one in August 2006, one in July 2006.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, I’m in several other ones right now, AVP and also Family
and Marriage.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: You’ve been attending, have you finished them yet?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, they canceled the AVP a while back, I’m starting AVP
tomorrow.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Okay, good. So you’re immersing yourself with self-help?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, yes sir.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: And when did you start attending self-help? You’ve been
down 22 years. When did you actually --?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I started in Lancaster with the (inaudible) and there was one other
one that I quit later because --
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: When was that?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: In 2003 maybe.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: 2003. I know you’ve been in and out, going to court,
fighting your appeals stuff and --.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: So why did it take you that long to start to do your
self-help?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, again, I’m not going to lie to you, sir.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: We appreciate that.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: The, like all these years in prison I heard about AA and NA and my
initial reaction is why should I go to AA and NA, one is a drug and the other one
alcohol and I don’t do either of them? That’s like taking on building a building
lessons when I’m not going to build a building, you know. To me it didn’t make
sense to be part of this, you know. I was naïve enough to think that, since I didn’t
do those that I had nothing to learn from it. But when I came here and people say hey,
man, you gotta go, man, you know. When I started going and I see all these people that
had these drug problems and alcohol problems and I’m learning from them.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: 12 Steps.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, and a lot of, as you guys know, CMC got a lot of programs. A
lot of the other prisons I’ve been, man, you know, like, I mean they were killing
people left and right, you know, they were stabbing people. And some people I, if I go
to NA and AA, you know, I mean, they gonna think, you know, well, you some kind of a
punk or something, you know.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: So you actually started in 2003 and you’re actually, you
have actually bought into it which means that you actually believe that you will
benefit from it, is that what you’re saying?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes. Being on Honor Yard in Lancaster and knowing that if I go to
these programs nobody’s going to come from behind me and stick a shank in my neck,
you know, that it was safe to attend these people--
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Have you attended --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: You know, I remember one time I went to, in Tehachapi, I don’t
recall if it was NA or AA and that was it. And I know --
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Did you hear about the 12 Steps program?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, I didn’t know too much about them, I just know that one was
Alcoholics Anonymous and the other was Narcotic, I just, like, again, I just never
thought about it and I just didn’t want to endanger myself by attending anything
like that when, you know, I knew what kind of people I was on the yard with, you know.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: You started really having, Mr. Sassounian, 1994 was the
last time you were on a Closed B. You know what a Closed B, you can get out when it’s
dark?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, after dark, yes.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: And then, 1995, you were in Medium A, Medium A, Medium A.
And then in 1998 you were placed in ASU. That’s a brief period of time, that’s,
two months almost. Okay. Now we’re going to go to your disciplinary history. Since
this is your Initial I will go with every, discuss every issue of discipline. I
counted 12 of them, and the last being in 2001. I’m going to start with the oldest
and I just want to, you know, put it on record, and then if you want to make any
statement you’re more than able to do so. But this is no longer hate --.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I know, it’s an old story.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: You can’t make yourself un-guilty based on what you told
me now, okay, it’s a done deal.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I’ll be honest, I will not lie to you.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Refusing a direct order, March 25, 1985.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: That is actually --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: In San Quentin, I think.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Yes. And you didn’t want to move to another cell block,
that’s what it is.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Oh, that one, I do not, the psych brought that up, I swear to God
to you I do not remember that at all. I thought it was a direct order, the other one.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Okay. And then leaving early from assignment, that’s in
2/21/1986. And it’s supposed to be, well, both of them are serious, it’s the
lowest serious 115, which is Division F. So, leaving assignment, March 12, 1986,
destroying state-issued sheets. Do you remember that?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I suppose so, yes. Guilty. I promise you I did it.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: This is administrative, it’s not serious. So two of them
are serious. Then May 26, 1986, refusing a direct order, administrative 115. You
refused to complete your assigned duty as a block worker, (inaudible) the garbage can.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, I remember that one, sir.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: And then 10/5/86, disobeying orders. And actually you said
that -- it’s a work-related issue. You were ordered to assist in painting the alpine
gutter and you said no.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, I remember that, that was in San Quentin, I think.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Let’s see, yeah, you’re right.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, I remember that. I can tell you the story but I’m guilty of
it.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Okay. And then you have one in 4B, maintenance building,
failure to come to class, on April 29, 1987.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I’m pretty sure it’s true.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: February 22, 1989, a serious 115 for force and violence on
a cell fight. I’m concerned about this. Maybe you can --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Okay, I can tell you the story, sir. I mean, it’s kind of
laughable, I’m sorry to say.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Okay, well, summarize it.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Okay. This guy wasn’t getting along with his cellie, and I was
single celled. He was half white, half Mexican. I told him you can just move in with
me because I thought he was a good guy. And after he was a couple days in the cell I
was bird bathing, you know, we couldn’t get a shower that day. I was (inaudible).
This guy was making homosexual advances toward me, he goes “hey, you want to
flip-flop?” I go “what the hell is a flip-flop?” He goes “you do to me what
you want and I’ll do to you what I want.” When he said that, you know, I just, I
cussed him out and I’m pretty sure I probably went over there to hit him. And I ain’t
going to lie to you and that’s what happened.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Yeah, you admitted the guilt on this one. And another
4/6/89, force and violence, fighting again. That’s in CSP in C Yard. Do you remember
that?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Who was the fight with, is the name there?
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Barros, inmate Barros.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Oh, that was in New Folsom?
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Looks like CSP, yeah, New Folsom.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: You know what, I remember that. We were playing chess and I was
beating him and he got angry and he hit my hand, you know, and after that we started
fighting. And once, if I can make a comment, I know it’s not over yet --
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Yeah.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: All these fights, sir, nobody was injured, none of these fights
lasted more than five seconds, you know. None of these fights had any weapons in it,
this was, you know, it was a couple of swings at him and him at me and it was over.
And nobody, you know, you could read the report and see that nobody was hardly
scratched in any of these fights, you know.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: October 29, 1992, fighting with inmate Rhodes. That’s in
Tehachapi 4B.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes. Sir, I swear to God to you, we were horse-playing. That was
not a fight. He was a black inmate, we were horse-playing. And if you read -- I’m
sure you guys know it from your experience if two inmates fight they do not get
assigned back to the same work area. We were right back in the same work area the next
day.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: No enemy concerns noted here.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, we was, it was horseplay, I swear to God, I ain’t gonna lie
to you, man.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Okay, now in 1995, 2/27/1995, participation in a work
stoppage or strike, CSP-Lancaster. What happened there?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, I believe that --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: This is in Lancaster.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Well, Sacramento, I think, had just taken the family visits
away from the inmates and everybody on the yard said, you know what, we gonna protest,
we’re not going to work, you know. And everybody, whites, blacks, Mexicans, others,
they all say nobody’s going to work, period. And what can I do? I’m not going to
go out there to work, I’m not going to get stabbed, you know? So I didn’t go to
work the next day and I think it lasted one day.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Yeah, it was reduced to an administrative 115. And that
happens too, I believe that. Mutual combat, 5/24/98, another mutual combat, at CSP-Lancaster.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Margeta (phonetic)?
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Yeah, you have a good memory, man.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I remember him. We were playing volleyball, he started cussing, we
were winning, he started cussing me out, you know, cussing my family, and I cussed him
out, and we started fighting right there. It’s as simple as that. And, you know, I’ll
take the blame, you know, I’m guilty.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Last one is 1/23/2001, participation in unlawful assembly.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Okay, I remember that too. What happened, I was basically on the
yard, sir, and again the inmates said all the Mexicans and the whites, we were going
in because one of the CO’s were giving the Mexican inmates a hard time and they said
they came to the whites, and they said if the whites would stay out with them. They
refused to lock up at 3:00 in the afternoon. And the whites told them okay and
somebody came to me and say hey, Harry, we not going in today. We protesting this and
we stand out here.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Who do you associate with?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I’m assigned as white, yes. In the beginning I was signed other
but I changed it in Tehachapi, I think, to white, you know, because I had an Armenian
cellie, he said hey, just change it to white, they can only cell you out with whites,
you know, and I changed it. So that’s what that happened, we stayed out until 9:00
that night I believe and there was no violence, there was nothing, and at 9:00 we all
went back in and I remember the Associate Warden came to the yard and say hey, you
know, just go in, I’ll take care of this problem tomorrow, and then we all went in.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: So I would say the last act of violence you had was in
1998, getting into a fight?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yes, I think so.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Okay. How old were you in 1998?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: In ’98 I was 35, I think. Yeah, I’m 43 now, so 35.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: 35. I’m trying to equate myself to that age. Normally at
35 you start getting mellow, start getting through. What do you think is the
explanation for it?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Well, again, you know, I’m guilty, I’m not making no excuses.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: I know.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: But in prison we have law, sir. If somebody calls you a punk,
somebody comes and swings at you, you better fight. If you don’t fight, the next day
they gonna deal with you, you know. There’s certain things you gotta do in prison,
you know, and out of all that, I’ll raise my hand and say I’m guilty of all of
them, you know, there’s no excuses for it and I’m ashamed of it. But more than
that, sir, I’m proud of what’s not in there, you know. And all these years I’ve
been locked up I never stabbed anybody, I never did drugs, I never joined the gang, I
never assaulted the staff and, you know, it’s not that, how many fights that I
stopped.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Okay, the reason I’m asking is that I’m still, I’m
thinking about your impulse control. You get out in the streets, you get into a sticky
situation, how you’re going to react to it?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I’m walking away from it. I’m not coming to jail, sir, you can
count on it. I’m done with it, you know.
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DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: I know you’ve got a US INS hold, you may be going somewhere.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No, besides that, I’m too old, I’m too fat. You know, and every one
of those fights, again, if you look at the detail, there was nobody injured. It wasn’t
like something where I beat the guy to death or beat me to death or, you know, nobody was
even scratched out of any of these fights, you know. As far as I remember nobody was
bleeding, nobody was cut, nobody nothing, you know. It was -- ten year old kids would have
bigger fights, you know.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Let me put on the record your 128’s. From August 28, 1984 for a
128, which is a custodial counseling chrono -- you were (inaudible), 1984?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, that’s where I started, I hadn’t had the main line yet. I was
in high power in county jail too, you know --
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Destruction of state personal property. Unauthorized absence,
10/29/1985. November 28, 1985, failed to remove cell covering from the bar cell. 1/21/86,
observed cell coverings on the cell. April 10, 1987, responsibility for count. And April 16,
1987, being out of bounds. June 3, 1987, work performance, failed to report to his job
assignment. August 17, 1988, passing contraband. And September 1, 1990 --
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: What contraband was it, does it say?
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Well, it’s a 128 so I don’t think it’s a serious one.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: Yeah, well, you know, most of these I have no idea about, sir, you know.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: “Returning to cell, bent down and threw something under the
cell door.” It was a, let’s see, it might be food, state food.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: I probably would have ate it.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: September 1, 1990, kissing a female visitor in the -- visiting
misconduct, let’s say. 4/10/1990, out of bounds. 7/21/2001, covering cell door. 6/16/2004,
work performance. And then June 24, 2004 for failure to report to a work assignment. This
was a 115 that was reduced to a 128. Do you remember this?
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: 2004 -- yeah, I remember that. I was a kitchen worker. I had the flu, I
didn’t go to work that day. And then she, the free lady wrote me up. She loved handing out
115’s. And the Sergeant said “this is garbage” and threw it out.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: Then 12/6/2005, failure to report to job assignment. And that’s
it. Then we’re going to go with your affiliation with any group, distracted group or
gangs.
INMATE SASSOUNIAN: No.
DEPUTY COMMISSIONER MEJIA: This is something that needs to be on recor
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