Tall Armenian Tale


The Other Side of the Falsified Genocide


First Page


Major Players
Links & Misc.



Mahmut Ozan
Edward Tashji
Sam Weems


This page consists of bits and pieces that were hard to stick in elsewhere, and is mainly meant as a storehouse to be linked to.

Perhaps this would be a good place for me to help the poor souls among you that are hard up for money.

CLICK HERE for a Holdwater Hint on how to make BIG MONEY, fast!


1)  The Black Company
2)  20,000 Armenian Volunteers at the Front, 1915
3)  Armenians of High Rank, 19th Cent. Ottoman Empire
3a) 20th Century Ottoman-Armenians
4)  Treaty of Gumru
5)  Nullum Crimen
6)  Excerpt from Halide Edip
7)  A Turkish Schindler: Ramez Bey
8)  Another Ottoman-Armenian Nurse Story
9)  The Hayastan All-Armenian Fund
10) Armenian Organizations and Their Big Bucks
11) Sam Weems on Armenian Political Power
12) Humanity of Ottomans vs. Europeans
13) Trucker Accused of Threatening President Bush
14) Armenians Get Themselves Off Terrorist List
) Armenian Population in the USA
14b) Ottoman Empire Settlement Payments?
15) Turkey Calls the Soviet Union's Bluff
16) UK faces bill for lost crusade
17) Exposing the True Colors of 'ANCA'
18) On the Wealth of Armenians
19) The Armenian Revolutionaries — 1895
19a) Terrorist Membership
20) Armenian Cannibalism
21) Golden Genocidal Nuggets from the Rank and File
22) Why do the French Always Suck Up to the Armenians?


The New York Times
December 15, 1915

(The author is on an American ship with foreign nationals, including one hundred Armenians from America)

The stories of all of them were much like the stories already told. Perhaps a fifth of them were naturalized Americans, another fifth had already taken out their first papers, and every one of them had been in America at least a year and could speak English. They were part of a stream of Armenians that has been pouring down into the Caucasus from the United States, Canada, England, France, and elsewhere, but particularly from America, for several months now, practically all of them Turkish Armenians, relying on the promise of the Russian Government that part of whatever territory which they may take from the Turks will be given to them as an autonomous Armenia under Russian protection. Almost every ship from New York to Archangel for the past three months has been carrying Turkish Armenians back to fight their hereditary enemy and his adopted war lord. They pay their own expenses back to Russia, are transported by the Russian Government to Tiflis, in the Russian Caucasus, where they are drilled by Russian officers and formed into Armenian regiments, the Russian Government supplying half of their equipment and they themselves buying the rest out of their own pockets. Most of them have had military training in Turkey. For instance, "Charl' Chaplin," the little leader who drilled his company on the careening decks of our ship, had been a lieutenant in the Ottoman army during the first Balkan War. By the 15th of last October 26,000 Turkish Armenians had taken the field against their ancient overloads, and 15,000 more were drilling at Tiflis, these groups being entirely distinct from the 75,000 Russian Armenians that had already been welded into the Czar's army. Fully 2,800 of these Turkish Armenians had been contributed by the Armenian colony in the United States. At the time this article goes to press it is safe to state all of the above figures with a twenty-five per cent increase.

The recruiting of these Armenians abroad has been conducted by the Patriotic Armenian Society, the Social Democratic Huntchagist.

...We selected a name. It's hard to translate, but in Armenian it means ' the company of horror-spreaders.' We'll spread horror among the Turks. You might call us the Black Company."


20,000 Armenian Volunteers at the Front in July, 1915

Letter from Mr. E. Vartanian, an Armenian-American Volunteer in the Russian Service, to His Brother-in-law in Egypt; Dated 9th /22nd July,1915, and Published in the Armenian Journal "Houssaper," of Cairo.

" We have been here three days. Some of us are going to be sent to Erivan; the rest of us are starting in two days for Van.

The enthusiasm here is very great. There are already 20,000 volunteers at the front, and they are trying to increase the number to 30,000. Each district we occupy is placed under Armenian administration, and an Armenian post is running from Igdir to Van. The Russian Government is showing great goodwill towards the Armenians and doing everything in its power for the liberation of Turkish Armenia.

When we disembarked at Archangel the Government gave us every possible assistance. It even undertook the transport of our baggage, and gave us free passes, second class, to Petrograd.

At Petrograd we received an equally hearty welcome, and the Governor of the city presented each of us with a medal in token of his sympathy. The Armenian colony put us up in the best hotels, entertained us at the best restaurants, and could not make enough of us. This lasted for five days, and then we continued our journey, again at the Government's expense, to Tiflis.

Everywhere on the way the population received us with cheers and offerings of flowers. Just as we were leaving Archa gel, a young Russian lady came with flowers and offered one to each of us. I also saw a quite poor man who was so moved by the speech in Russian that one of our comrades had made, that he came and put his tobacco into the pipe of a comrade standing next to me, and kept nothing for himself but a bare half-pipeful. A third, an old man, was so moved by the speech that he began to cry and nearly made off, but a little while after I saw him standing in front of the carriage window and, with a shaking hand, holding out a hard-boiled egg to our comrade the chemist Roupen Stepanian. Probably it was his one meal for the day.

And so at every step we found ourselves in the midst of affecting scenes. At Petrograd Railway Station the crowd was enormous. There was an Armenian lady there who offered each of us a rose. There were boys and young men who wept because they could not come with us. At Rostov a young Russian joined our ranks. He was caught more than once by his parents at the stations further down the line, but he always succeeded in escaping them and reioining us. We have christened him Stepan.

When we arrived at Tiflis, we marched singing to the offices of the Central Armenian Bureau, with our flag unfurled in front of us, and the people marched on either side of us in such a crowd that the trams were forced to stop running.

That is enough for to-day. My next letter shall be written from Armenia itself..

Please say nothing to my sister about this resolution that I have taken. I hope, of course, that she would know how to sacrifice her affection for her brother to her love for the nation and for liberty.. I should curse any of my relations who lament my resolution; they would have committed treason against the nation. There are five of us brothers; was it not imperative that at least one of us should devote himself to the cause of a national emancipation ? Let us keep up our courage, realise the urgency of the moment and do our duty. "

From "An Armenian and Muslim Tragedy? Yes! Genocide? No!" By Bruce Fein


29 Armenians achieved the highest governmental rank of pasha,
22 Armenians became ministers, including Ministers of Foreign Affairs,
33 Armenians were elected to the Parliament,
7 Armenians were appointed as Ambassadors, 11 as Consul Generals,
11 Armenians served in universities as professors.

There were 803 Armenian schools employing 2088 teachers with over 80,000 pupils within the Ottoman Empire in 1901-2


[One notable 20th cent. example: Gabriel Nouradungian became Minister of Foreign Affairs, entrusted with handling the country’s foreign policy during the turbulent Balkan Wars (1912-13)]


Other than and including the 19th Century, according to "Armenian Claims and Realities," Dr. Hüsamettin Yildirim, Ankara, 2001:

Armenians "reached the higher posts of: Minister of Construction, Minister of Maritime, Minister of Finance, Minister of Post and Telegram, Minister of Mint, and some served as Undersecretaries; (There were 9 Parliamentarians in the 1st Constitution, 11 Parliamentarians in the 2nd Constitution, 12 Parliamentarians in the 1914 Parliament and around 20,000 government officials altogether)."

There were also those who wrote works on the matters of the Ottoman State, both in Turkish and other foreign languages; detailed information may be found in "Osmanli Idaresinde Ermeniler/Armenians in the Ottoman Administration, Nejat Güyünc, Istanbul, 1983.


There's also this report from an Armenian source:

Mesrob K.Krikorian, in the preface of his research entitled "Armenians in the Service of the Ottoman Empire 1860-1908" states that
both in Anatolia and Syria, the Armenians were employed in various
administrative , judicial, economic and secretarial fields and, to a
lesser extent, in technical affairs, agriculture, education and public
health. Armenians were also employed in the police force of provinces
where there existed Armenian communities. Armenians held high level
posts in the Ottoman Administration such as Minister of Foreign
Affairs, Secretary General of the same Ministry, Ambassadors,
Ministers of Finance, Treasury, and Public Works, Presidents of the
State Banks and Post Services and as Governors.

In his conclusion, Krikorian asserts: "It is advisable for comparative
study to notice the parallel participation of the other principal
non-Turkish elements of the population. Summing up the participation
of the communities other than Armenian, it is clear that none of them
had such a large and permanent co-operation with the Ottoman
Government in the public affairs of Eastern Anatolia and Syria as the
Armenian "millet"." (53)

53. Mesrob K. Krikorian, Armenians in the Service of the Ottoman
Empire (London 1977) p.107


20th Century Ottoman-Armenians


ADDENDUM, 5-07, Holdwater note: In the interim, I have been running into other lists of high-ranking Ottoman-Armenians, and this is a topic worthy of greater exploration. Time limitations require this "quickie," for now. Here are some Armenians working in government and other high positions close to or during 1915. We already know about the foreign minister. Here are some others:

# Sakizli Armanak Efendi — chairman of the Government
Accounting Bureau,
# Hallaçyan Efendi — member of parliament from Istanbul; also working as chairman of financial law committee
# Artin Bosgezeryan, Onnik Efendi, Aram Efendi,
Azaryan Efendi
— MPs.
# Bogos Serbetçiyan Efendi, Dr. Cevahiryan Efendi — members of Istanbul council
# Simeon Efendi — lawsuit attorney

This is one heck of a "Holocaust Parallel," isn't it? Many thanks to reader Baris Tuncer for bringing these fellows to our attention. I don't generally follow the Turkish press, but a search reveals the topic was discussed in a Nov. 17, 2006 article in Milliyet, entitled "1915'te Osmanli Ermeniler" (1915's Ottoman-Armenians). It says a Turkish professor, Zafer Toprak (which another search reveals is the Director of the Atatürk Institute for Modern Turkish History, and served as the former chairman of Bogaziçi University's History Department), has compiled a long list of names similar to the above.

The Treaty of Gumru


Following the defeat of the Armenians the Gumru Treaty was signed on December 2, 1920 between the young Turkish government and the Armenian Republic. Turks gave a provision to allow the relocated Armenians to return to their lands:

Article 3 of the Treaty of Gumru. The Government of the Grand National Assembly of Turkey may be able to consider the wishes of the Armenian Republic about the relocation of the entire native population back into the territories designated in the second article, existing in the old Ottoman boundaries which shall remain in Turkey, by irrefutable historical ethnic and legalistic rights, accepts their return by a general election within those territories, within three years after the ratification of this treaty. A mixed commission will decide the form of this.

Article 6 of the Treaty of Gumru. The two parties permit the return of refugees to their hearths across the old boundaries with the exception of those who, during the general war, went to enemy¹s army and took arms, and those who crossed occupied territories and participated in massacres; and mutually assure the privileges of minorities obtained in the most-civilized countries to those who repatriate themselves.

Article 7. Those of the refugees mentioned in Article 6 who do not return to their hearths within the limit of one year after the ratification of this treaty, besides not being able to benefit from the generosity of the said article, their legal claims also will not be heard.

Based on these provisions borders were to be opened to both sides as Turks too were dislocated by Armenians and Russians during the bloody wars of 1914 ­1920. But such provisions never materialized despite the Turkish effort of giving an "olive branch."


This treaty was also known as "The Treaty of Alexandropol." )

Here is what Armenian historian, Kapriel Serope Papazian (who, unlike Dr. Dennis Papazian, did not shun the truth) had  to say (as referred to by Prof.Türkkaya Ataov) in his "Patriotism Perverted" (Boston Baker Press, 1934):

The Treaty of Sevres, which recognized Armenia, was signed on August 10, 1920, by the representatives of the Armenian Republic. "The same men were to repudiate the Sevres Treaty and the claims of Armenians in Turkey by signing the Treaty of Alexandropol on December 2,1920" (p.48). (Holdwater: only four months later. Now, doesn't that take the cake?) Papazian says that the text of this treaty has not been published by those responsible for it, that neither A. Khatisian (the head of the Armenian delegation that signed the Treaty), nor S. Vratzian (the head of the Armenian Government at the time), who have both written voluminous histories of the Armenian Republic, embody the text of the Treaty in their books (p. 74). (Holdwater: Armenians who are trying to withhold facts damaging to "The Cause"? That must have been a first...)

Article 3 of the Treaty states: "As it is evident from Turkish, Russian and all other world statistics, and from the established social situation, we again, on this occasion, confirm that there is no territory within the Ottoman borders where the Armenians form a majority" (pp.74-75). Article 9 said that the Government of the Grand National Assembly of Turkey refrained from demanding indemnities although it had a "right to demand indemnities as a result of the war against Armenia which it has been compelled to wage." Article 11 declared the Sevres Treaty "null and void." The same article stipulated that the Armenian Government undertook ''to withdraw its delegations in Europe and America, that are tools in the hands of certain imperialistic governments and circles." (Holdwater: Why, the Armenians ADMITTED it!!) Article 15 mentioned that the Armenian Republic agreed "to consider as null and void all those stipulations of treaties she has signed with any power, which relate to Turkey and are against the interests of Turkey" (p. 77).


ADDENDUM: We have Armenian-American author John Roy Carlson to thank, for making the details available in 1955. The  entire treaty may be found here.



  Food for Thought: "Nullum Crimen"


The principle called "Nullum crimen, nulla poena sine praevia lege poenali" is a basic maxim in continental European legal thinking,and recognized in virtually all modern democracies. It was authored by Paul Johann Anselm Ritter von Feuerbach as part of the Bavarian Code in 1813. This maxim states that there can be no crime committed, and no punishment meted out, without a violation of penal law as it existed at the time. This basic legal principle has been incorporated into international criminal law. It thus prohibits the creation of ex post facto laws.

What this basically means is that penal law cannot be enacted retroactively, for an offense not existing when that offense was committed ("nullum crimen"); that is, one cannot be penalized for doing something that isn't prohibited by law.

Apart from it, the alleged acts against Armenians in 1915 do not constitute the crime of genocide because International law did not prescribe it as the crime of genocide in 1915. Moreover, if we apply logic to generality then, “the killing of Jesus on (the) cross constitutes the crime (of) torture under the European Convention on Human Rights”. How (is it) consistent with ... common sense? How can you apply the present concepts retroactively? How could any reasonable person argue that (the) British Empire’s occupation of Egypt in (the) 1800(s) constitutes the crime of aggression? Was that act considered aggression at that time?
Nurlan, http://genocide.com/

Excerpt from Halide Edip Adıvar

Halide Edip makes an interesting observation about the children in the orphanages.

Halide Edib, as portrayed in YOUNG INDIANA JONES (by Zuhal Olcay)

As portrayed in YOUNG INDIANA JONES 

Taking the Armenian children from the Turkish orphanages was becoming a tragic sight. . . . A committee was founded, presided over by Colonel Heathcote Smythe, and it was attempting to find the Armenian children and separate them from the Turkish children. They had rented a house in Shishli (a quarter of Istanbul). The majority of the central committee which was to separate the children were Armenians. Nezihe Hanim, General Secretary of the womens' branch of the Red Crescent, had been invited to represent the Turks. . . . When children were brought from the orphanages in Anatolia, to Istanbul, they were sent to the Armenian church in Kumkapu, and there they were claimed to be Armenian. Some children tried to escape, but were caught and brought back.

It was a day when I had gone to visit Nezihe Hanim. Two frightened children came into the room, one was limping and the other had been wounded in the head . . . they had come from an orphanage and had been brought to a church. They had strongly resisted being considered as Armenians, as the Armenians had killed their parents. They had been severely beaten, but had succeeded in escaping. They were crying, they were pleading to be protected, not to be sent back. . . . Nezihe Hanim called a few journalists and requested that they be brought to Mr. Ryan, the head translator of the British Embassy. . . . Although it was known how much hatred he had against the Turks, Nezihe Hanim thought that he would be compassionate in the presence of these two innocent and desperate children. . . I later heard that when these two children were speaking, an Armenian official entered the room to say something to Mr. Ryan. One of the children screamed "this was the man who beat and kicked us." The man was a member of the delegation in the Church of Kumkapu. . . .

The pain of this little creature affected me very much. For me he symbolized the desperate Turkish nation. He was small and weak.


Halide Edip Adıvar (1884-1964) was the renowned novelist who became one of the heroes of the national independence movement); a bio may be found here.

  A Turkish Schindler: Ramez Bey

In 1914, Aleppo, Syria was a major Turkish military nerve center for the conduct of the war in Palestine, where the British had opened up a new offensive against the Turks and their German allies. Ramez Bey was the superintendent of four military hospitals. He hired Elmasd Santourian, an Armenian nurse, who had nursed his daughter back to health. Recognizing her capabilities, he asked her to reorganize the Azizeh Hospital. Elmasd was asked to submit a list of incompetent nurses, who were then dismissed. She was now in a position to hire their replacements, so she gradually replaced them with Armenian refugee girls, some orphaned, but all hiding from the gendarmes. She secured their work papers, which exempted them and their families from deportation. (Paraphrased from "The Story Of a Widow" by John Halajian)

(Holdwater: Thanks to Mr. Halajian [or the Armenian webmaster who used this excerpt] for giving Ramez Bey the credit, who certainly must not have been unaware of what was taking place, so it's not like he wouldn't be sharing in some of the credit, or responsibility... but the real "Schindler" here sounds like Elmasd Santourian. How ironic that she dismissed nurses for being incompetent, and then hired replacements whose qualifications had little to do with possessing the skills of a nurse. Imagine if these new "nurses" had grudges to bear, and then were entrusted with the duties of caring for injured Turkish soldiers...)

Related: Real Turkish Schindlers


Another Ottoman-Armenian Nurse Story


In the early sixties, I had personally met an old Armenian lady in Lebanon who, as she told me, was an Ottoman nurse in the First World War in Damascus; she originally came from south-southeastern Anatolia, I do not remember exactly, but I think it was Marash. Here is the part of our conversation that passed between us:

-- Son, I was a young Armenian girl working as an Ottoman nurse in a hospital in Damascus, and used to attend the wounded Turkish soldiers. After the war (1st World War) I returned to Marash which was under the French occupation. When the French wanted to leave Marash for Syria, they asked the Armenians whether they would stay in Marash or go with them to Syria or Lebanon.. Our priests and leaders decided to go with the French. During the two or three days before we left Marash, our people started to kill the Turkish people. They had cauldrens full of yoghurt and they were pouring them onto the streets so that the Turks could slip and not be able to run fast to escape.

-- My dear lady, I hope you are not making up this yoghurt story in order to soften the alleged crimes that we Turks have committed against the Armenians.

-- No my son, I saw it with my own eyes. If I am lying let my God blind both of my eyes. And if the Turks have killed the Armenians, surely Armenians deserved it.


Dr. Müh. Selahi Diker

The Hayastan All-Armenian Fund

"The Hayastan All-Armenian Fund was founded six months after the declaration of independence of Armenia based on the Resolution of March 3, 1992 issued by the first President of the Republic Levon Ter-Petrossian.

The necessity of creating the Fund was dictated by the voluntary donations and fund raising performed by the Armenians living in Armenia and other countries of the world in favor of newly born state and Artsakh struggling for independence."

Auditor Report on the Financial Statements
for the 12 months period ended 31 December 2000

Country $
Armenia 8,093,781.30
RMK 176,954.65
Argentina 6,359,706.40
Australia 1,137,555.90
Austria 214,343.65
Belgium 100,942.39
Brazil 1,842,554.75
Bulgaria 3,404.85
Canada 1,901,485.25
Chile 21,360.00
Cyprus 559,899.03
Egypt 153,759.66
France 5,569,916.58
Germany 589,255.30
Greece 6,000.00
Iran 400,822.31
Ireland 2,610.00
Israel 10,000.00
Italia 8,095.91
Japan 2,212.00
Lebanon 1,051,956.23
Netherlands 145,021.31
Poland 50.00
Russia 11,952.63
Saudi Arabia 100,000.00
Sweden 15,822.28
Switzerland 3,378,213.51
Syria 153,435.00
Turkey 4,000.00 (From Armenian Turks)
U.K. 3,378,213.51
Uruguay 167,032.98
USA 39,333,573.91
Venezuela 99,177.39
International Organizations 76,101.00
IDF Grant 98,384.13
Not Traceable 50,224.00
TOTAL 75,494,940.73

Holdwater: Let's see now.... it's natural to expect the greatest contributions to come from the two nations most on their knees to lick Armenian butts, the United States and France... but check this out! ARGENTINA beats France..!

I hate to admit it, but it looks like America has left France in the dust as far as being the champion Armenian lover. Over half this fund comes from America. (It's embarrassing!)

Other nations where Armenians have considerable muscle are Great Britain, Australia, and Canada, which we all know... and Switzerland... and... Brazil?

Equally revealing are the contributions from two of Armenia's closest Orthodox partners... Russia and Greece.

Armenian Organizations and Their Big Bucks

The AGBU, started up by Boghos Nubar Pasha, reports on its web site of having a budget of twenty seven million dollars.

The Armenian Assembly of America ... has 7,000 individual and organizational members and a budget of $2.5 million. According to the 2001 (or 2002) Armenian Assembly of America Annual Report ( p. 26), they boasted “investments” of $13,134,187.(Updated to "over $3.5 million; see addendum below.)

Armenian lobby ANCA (The Armenian National Committee of America) received 8 million dollars from Armenia's government in 2001.

From ANI's web site: How is the Armenian National Institute financed?
"ANI was established with a $1 million donation. The Institute's source of funds are earnings from the Endowment Fund, interest, dividends, gains, and private donations from individuals."
(Holdwater: Unfortunately, the ANI-Bunnies did not specify their working budget; I've got a sneaking suspicion the "establishment donation" would be far overshadowed.)

Holdwater here. If I were getting paid to prepare this web site, I would take the extra time to research how much money is burning a hole in all the Armenian organizations' pockets. As it is, I will only add to this list as I come across the figures arbitrarily.

However... please keep in mind... there are many Armenian organizations, worldwide, many with budgets in the millions. Where does this money go? Of course, a portion goes to buying politicians (below) and media air time, if America is an example... but there is so much of this money. Where does it all go?

ADDENDUM, 10-07:

Spiegel provides this accounting of the Armenian lobby:

Armenian-Americans are particularly active in California, New Jersey and Michigan — which happens to be the constituency of Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic Speaker of the House. Her Californian colleague Adam Schiff, who promoted the resolution, has the issue to thank for his own political career. His predecessor in the constituency lost his seat when he failed to push through the resolution in 2000.

Armenian groups have been bombarding their representatives over the past few years with an unusually massive PR drive. Their most important umbrella group “Armenian Assembly of America” has 10,000 members and an annual budget of over $3.5 million. It employs four different influential PR firms in Washington to keep the suffering of the Armenians on the agenda in the US capital.

(From "The Armenian Lobby,"
Marc Schulman, Oct 12th, 2007, mvdg.wordpress.com)


The Armenians have perhaps 40-50 full time professionals in Washington D.C. doing nothing but working each and every day to undercut Turkey and Azerbaijan and promote themselves for more foreign aid taxpayer funding. Turkish Americans have -0- staff and office working for them in Washington DC. The Turks really should do more to protect themselves. All they have to do is tell truth!

Judge Sam Weems

Consider this: Armenian-Americans perhaps spent less than 1.5 million dollars per year on average, to get some of these congress people elected to the U.S. Congress, which totals $ 15 million in 10 years (1991-2001). In the same ten years, these congress people paid back "their debt" to the Armenian-Americans by sending $ 1.5 billion (with a"b"!) to that terrorist state called Armenia… Each dollar invested into the election campaigns of Pallone and Knollenberg came back as $100 in U.S. aid to Armenia ! Not bad for a country whose number one export is terrorism and number one import is American handouts, don't you think?




Someone actually researched the ins and outs of Armenian organizations. Heather S. Gregg from MIT unfortunately accepts the Armenian "Genocide" at face value (well, she is from "Armenian country," Massachusetts), but one would hope she would have gotten enough clues about the tactics of the Armenians to at least have entertained some doubts. Her report is entitled, "Divided They Conquer: The Success of Armenian Ethnic Lobbies in the United States," and may be accessed at http://web.mit.edu/cis/www/migration/pubs/rrwp/13_divided.html#_ftn2



Humanity of Ottomans vs. Europeans


Holdwater: I enjoyed this letter for the sobering points reached by its author. Turcophobes love to put down the Turks for being only good at war, but who was conquering the world after the 16th Century? The Ottomans were practicing rule on the basis of tolerance, whereas their European counterparts largely had different ideas, in their own conquered lands. Read on.


Armenian Lies are a Genocide of the TRUTH

Dear Senators,

I trust that you are all elected on the foundation of honor and virtue. The Armenian Lobby is publicly making a mockery of our fine democratic institution. I ask all of you to support the Nation of Turkiye, a secular, modern, democratic friend of the US in its defense of hatemonging lies.

The Turks have been unfairly categorized as villains in events that happened a century ago. The truth is, the Turks were never villains. They were empire builders that preached tolerance and progress. For the Ottomans, as the world changed, they were not fully grasping this change. They had built an empire of tolerance and business as usual, because it simply worked for centuries, but the 19th century was a difficult transition. The world was becoming militant and racist. WW1 was a war to carve up the domain of the Ottomans, whom had ruled half of Europe, all of Northern Africa, All of the Middle East, and all the major trade routes throughout Asia. They had ruled, without forcing its religion (Muslim), language or vision. It was apparent why nationalism was able to thrive in an empire that still had Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, Circassians, Egyptians, Lebanese, Algerian, Tunisian, Libyan, Bosnian, Bulgarian, Albanian, Arab, Polish, Jewish, Italian, Slavic, Croatian, and the list goes on. These people were Ottoman, along with the Turks for over 500 years. Till this day, they still share the same food, similar values, and a zest for life. They didn't lose their language, religion, folklore or values. They simply thrived under Ottoman rule. Meanwhile, during this period, the West was hanging scientists, people with different colored hair or beliefs, the Indians were being infested with disease, and the Africans were cowardicely used as slaves to further Greed.

As the Ottomans were invaded and instigated by the Russians, [British], Greeks, French, Italians, Arabs, Armenians, Syrians, and etc., the only people suffering were the Turks, who were driven out of Eastern Europe in the millions. They were massacred, raped, murdered, and robbed out of the Caucasus, also in the millions. Many also perished in Africa and the Middle East. The Anatolians were being cowardly attacked by Armenian mercenaries. The mercenaries were cheered by Armenian villagers, that had lived in peace with their Muslim Turkish neighbors for 1,000 years. After 3 million Turkish lives, the Ottomans ordered the sympathizers of the 1st Terrorists of the 20th Century, to the Syrian plateau, their ancient Homeland. An important point to consider is that the Ottoman empire did not expand since Suleiman the Magnificent in the 16th century. During this period, much of the world was conquered by European Christian nations. This was a period of immense scientific advancement in chemicals, weapons, and other methods of destruction.

In their desperate move, the Ottomans did not have any food, resources or money to care for not only the Armenian traitors, but for its own civilians. Out of exiled Eastern Armenian population, 200 to 300,000 Armenians may have perished due to the harsh climatic conditions, retaliations by villagers, and Kurdish bandits. 1.2 million survived and settled in France, Holland, Greece, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, modern day Armenia, the US and Canada, the UK, and Turkiye of course. There was never a Genocide, which is a systematic killing of an entire race.

This is the only history the world knows and perhaps will ever know. Another history, that will not be written in textbooks is that half of my family members were butchered by Armenians in the Eastern Turkish city of Kars. It will not be in textbooks, but it will be a wound on every Turk's heart.

Peace and Love,

God bless us All.

Tamer Ozaydin
August 9, 2002, New Jersey


Professor Mahmut Ozan replies:

Dear Tamer,

One of the greatest accolades and praises you may hear in journalism
would be of a writer saying about the works of another one the following: "I wish that I had said that," or "I wish that I had written that."

Well, at this moment, I do find myself in their awkward position. I
mumble with envy and say: "I wish that I were the first one to think about
Tamer's superb words, and hope that I may be among the first ones to
congratulate him for his poetic composition of beautiful and strong
thoughts. I am sure every Turk hopes to achieve the same results as you
have done against our despicable detractors but is not able to do so. I
thank you for having given me the chance to say these words to you.

Your older brother
Mahmut Esat Ozan


Driver arrested near I-70 rest stop
By Angelle Haney

Dayton Daily News

A California man was arrested Sunday afternoon in Preble County,
accused of making threats against the life of President Bush. Truck driver Norayr Avetisyan of Glendale, Calif., is accused of making threatening comments over his CB radio while driving east on Interstate 70 through Indiana. Another driver told the Indiana State Police by cell phone that Avetisyan, 27, was threatening to blow up the White House with explosives he said he was carrying as freight in his tractor-trailer.

Local law enforcement opened the truck scales in Preble County in an attempt to intercept Avetisyan. Ohio Highway Patrol troopers seized him and his vehicle at 1:15 p.m. near the rest stop just across the Ohio state line.

Members of the U.S. Secret Service and the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force responded to the scene after they were notified. Sgt. Robin Schmutz of the patrol said Avetisyan's truck contained produce, not explosives.

He was arrested without incident, she said. The suspect was taken to Montgomery County Jail and is being held without bail bond on charges in the U.S. District Court of Indiana for making threats against the president.

U.S. Attorney Greg Lockhart said Avetisyan would be removed soon to Indiana to face those federal charges.


Reading the news item above, concerning an Armenian, by the name of Norayr Avetisyan of Glendale, California, accused of making threatening comments against the life of President Bush forces us to believe that there is a fairly good chance that the original U.S. Department of Justice decree which stated that adult male visitors from Armenia be photographed and
fingerprinted was a correct decision.

The tremendous pressure applied on the White House by the Armenian authorities and considered the whole affair as if it were simply an "error". Well, it may not been a simple "error after all. However, Armenians are very good at this type of thing . Instigated by ANCA, the Armenian National Committee of America, and many other Armenian political organizations they created a "deluge" (as they called it) of webFaxes and webmails campaign, which avalanched on the White House and the US Department of Justice which were trying to protect this country of ours from aliens such as the ones indicated in the decree. The Armenian authorities called initial requirements "a mistake" and they proudly announced to the world at large that the order was retracted quickly by the U.S. Department of Justice and the stigma falsely associated with terrorism was eliminated with the official U.S. Justice Department's 'back-down.'

The above news item must have exploded like a bomb at all world news services, today because we received it all the way from Baku,
Azerbaijan. Mr. Nazim Huseynov, a top echelon assistant to the Foreign Ministry of Azerbaijan related it to us. Ms. Angelle Haney was not available to fill in the details. Nevertheless, unless it is a hoax perpetrated by a news-crazed hacker, the ramifications of this scoop we are disseminating may be found in every print Media tomorrow.

The publisher of a small-time newspaper called the California Courier, a Mr. Harut Sassounian will be rather interested in reading the above news item concerning one of his fellow-Armenians arrested and placed in jail without the benefit of bail bond. Mr. Norayr Avetisyan must be living so close to where Sassounian publishes the Courier. I am sure the good publisher will find another reason to send 10,000 webmails and thousands of other webFaxes, this time to the Police department of the city of
Dayton Ohio, in order to correct another "mistake" etc...etc... I'm
sure I'll be hearing from him again.

Mahmut Esat Ozan
Dec 25, 2002
The Turkish Forum


RELATED NEWS STORY (Dec. 18, 2002)

(Steve Lopez, Los Angeles Times) - Just when it looked like the federal government might have to put a barbed wire fence around the city of Glendale for reasons of national security, good news arrived Monday from the crime busters at the U.S. Justice Department.

Armenian nationals do not -- repeat, DO NOT -- have to report to the Immigration and Naturalization Service for fingerprinting and registration.

It was all a mistake, and Armenians can now return to their normal activities.

Or maybe it wasn't a mistake. I can't tell, and the really frightening thing is that the Justice Department can't seem to tell either. After rescinding the order calling for Armenians to fall in line and be accounted for, a Justice Department spokesman was asked by The Times about the goof, and here's what we got out of him:

"I can't say it was a mistake."

Well then what was it? And if they couldn't get this right, and couldn't at least come up with a credible lie, why should we assume the feds are capable of getting anything else right when it comes to homeland security?

This all began late last week when Armenia, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan were added to a list of 18 mostly Muslim nations whose nationals are required to register if they're male, 16 or older, and here as students or visitors.

This requirement sent the nation's 1.5 million Armenian Americans into a frenzy, and California, home to half of them, led the outrage campaign...

Armenian Population in the USA

The Armenian population in the USA is usually presented as around one million or less, but the "1.5 million" number keeps popping up more often. (As may be seen in the last paragraph of the article directly above, appearing all the way back in 2002; let's keep in mind that the article is from the Los Angeles Times, which is known to rely on Armenian propaganda for its facts.)

This should come as no surprise to those of us who are aware that the number "1.5 million" has sacred value to many Armenians. But how many Armenians are there, really, in the United States? This tidy section will add further clues, as they come along.

Dana Milbank wrote an October 10, 2007 article entitled, "Belatedly, the House's History Lesson," appearing in The Washington Post; an excerpt:

...By All 10 committee members from California (where the census counts 231,777 Armenians)

If California houses the largest number of Armenians in the United States, as is commonly accepted, and there are only less than a quarter-million in that state, then the Armenian population in the United States must number well less than one million.


"For decades, Armenians round the world have lobbied for explicit official recognition of their point of view. Over the years, Armenian groups in America (where perhaps 400,000 people have Armenian ancestry) ..."

"Unearthing the past, endangering the future," The Economist, Oct 18th 2007

Ottoman Empire Settlement Payments?


The instructions for the line on the "NR California Tax forms" asking for taxable interest income provides in its "Among other interest sources" section: "interest from Ottoman Turkish Empire Settlement Payments."

The details:

Instructions for Schedule CA (540) These instructions are based on the Internal Revenue Code (IRC) as of January 1, 2005 and the California Revenue and Taxation Code (R&TC).

Page 1

Ottoman Turkish Empire. If you received settlement payments as a person persecuted by the regime that was in control of the Ottoman Turkish Empire from 1915 until 1923, your gross income does not include those excludable settlement payments, or interest, received by you, your heirs, or estate for payments received on or after January 1, 2005.

Page 2

Line 8 – Taxable Interest Income If you did not receive any of the kinds of income listed below, do not make an entry on this line in either column B or column C. Enter in column B the interest you received from:

• U.S. savings bonds (except for interest from series EE U.S. savings bonds issued after 1989 that qualified for the Education Savings Bond Program exclusion);

• U.S. Treasury bills, notes, and bonds; or

• Any other bonds or obligations of the United States and its territories.

• Interest earned from Ottoman Turkish Empire Settlement Payments.

Page 5

Ottoman Turkish Empire Settlement Payments. Gross income does not include settlement payments received by an eligible individual, individual heirs or estate, as a person persecuted by the regime that was in control of the Ottoman Turkish Empire from 1915 until 1923. If you reported settlement payments on line 21, column A, enter the amount of settlement payments in column B.

The questions coming to mind are:

1) The "regime" in control of the defeated Ottoman Empire from 1918 to 1923 was basically Great Britain. Have the British agreed to provide settlements for Armenians?

2) Otherwise, has any Turkish government agreed to provide for such settlements? There has been one "lump sum" settlement to take care of the claims of all Americans who once resided in the Ottoman Empire, but that was paid off by 1934, and the terms of that one precluded any other settlements. Payments from 1934 and earlier would probably be extremely irrelevant for today's tax forms.

3) Has this phantom settlement been included in the California tax form to satisfy the fetish of Armenian-Americans in Califormia?

4) Why don't other ethnic groups with psychological needs have their own special lines in the California tax form?

5) Unless there is more to this than meets the eye (and brain), the last burning question is: Hasn't "The Twilight Zone" been cancelled?

The above tax information has been sourced to maviboncuk.com; thanks to Sevgi.

Turkey Calls the Soviet Union's Bluff

The U.S. government and especially President Harry S. Truman remembered and appreciated the gallant Turks' answer given to Stalin in 1946. A legendary account of it went the following way:

The Soviet Russia gave an ultimatum to the Turkish Foreign Office and demanded the return to the Soviets of the three Eastern Turkey cities, Kars, Artvin, and Ardahan they had ceded to Turkey when the Armenian requested treaty of Gumru signed with Ankara had fixed the present day frontier between Turkey and Soviet Armenia in the early days of Ataturk's newly formed Turkish Republic.

Stalin's ultimatum is rumored to contain a sentence which did not go too well with the Ismet Inonu government. The legend claims that it said in part: " If those three cities are not returned to the Soviets the Russian soldier is capable to cross Anatolia and free them." To this the Turkish aswer is said to be the following: "The only way the Russian soldier could cross Anatolia is by buying a train ticket as a tourist." Of course those Turkish cities are still in Turkey today.

Then came Stalin's death in 1953, that very same year. I remember the infamous red priest Makarios in Ankara. He was there to give his condolences to the Soviets. What startled me was the fact that this bloody Red Priest stayed at the Russian Embassy overnight, side-stepping the Greek one. After Stalin was out of the picture, you could see and feel that the Cold War had already begun to warm up slightly.

Mahmut Esat Ozan


UK faces bill for lost crusade

 May 13, 2001

(Professor Ayvazyan with map of Cilicia; Prof Ayvazyan eyes Cilicia; Britain could face a 600-year-old bill for a crusade that never was if an Armenian history professor has his way.)

Suren Ayvazyan of Yerevan University is writing to the Queen to demand the return of the treasury of the Kingdom of Cilicia, or Lesser Armenia, which was overthrown by the Muslim Mameluke rulers of Egypt in 1375.

King Levon VI of Cilicia, a state occupying parts of what are now Turkey and Syria, managed to escape to Europe, where he sought to raise a final crusade to free the last Christian state in the Middle East.

In 1378, he signed an agreement depositing the Cilician treasury with King Richard II of England for safekeeping until his kingdom regained its independence, according to Professor Ayvazyan.

King Levon did not live to see his country free again. In fact, apart from an interlude in 1918-1921, no Armenian state existed again until the Republic of Armenia was established in the Caucasus in 1991.

The 300 years of the Cilician Kingdom is considered to be the golden age of the Armenian enlightenment, and produced a wealth of exquisite illuminated manuscripts.

It eventually fell foul of the wrath of Muslim rulers in the region for having sided with the Crusader states of Edessa and Jerusalem.

Claims of royal kinship

Professor Ayvazyan somewhat muddied the waters by suggesting that the English themselves originally came from the Angl-tun region of ancient Armenia in the second millennium BC.

"That is why Levon VI, following the tradition of Armenian rulers,
handed the Armenian treasury for safekeeping to those who came
originally from Angl-tun — to the English king," he told the Armenian
newspaper Novoye Vremya.

Professor Ayvazyan also suggested that the House of Windsor derived its name from the Armenian word meaning "gorge of the vineyards".

"That means the ancestors of the current Queen lived in Armenia in a gorge where grapes were grown," the professor suggested.

BBC Monitoring, based in Caversham in southern England, selects and translates information from radio, television, press, news agencies and the Internet from 150 countries in more than 70 languages.


Holdwater: Hey, Professor Ayvazyan... while you're at it, please also submit a bill to Armenia for the fifty million dollars loan from the U.S. government, at 5% interest, that was reneged on.

Further Exposing the True Colors of 'ANCA': Pathetic Denial of the Obvious


Holdwater: Shortly before this web site debuted, I confronted Armenians at an Internet forum, armed with my newfound knowledge. I laid out the facts, and the Armenians' response? Attacking the messenger instead of the message (one thought I was a "Zionist," and another proclaimed I was on somebody's payroll), and the ready charge of "Liar, Liar, Pants on Fire." The following excerpt struck a very familiar chord.

From: Han Mutlu

ANCA logo

Make 'em cry ANCA 

This time, Barry Dabbaghian-Nichols of ANCA strikes:

> Turks will always be filthy, ugly sadistic lying murderers.

The response of a true intellectual. Well, just out of curiosity though, is that how the mind of an 'ANCA' member works? I always wondered what made them tick
and why they did certain acts that no normal person in
their right mind would do. 'ANCA' cannot argue and
discuss the facts, cannot contest the points, so they
insult and sling mud at me or make disparaging
personal and racist remarks. Good strategy. If my
position was as weak as theirs, I would probably adopt
it myself. What I wrote about the Armenian crime of
genocide against the Muslim and Jewish people is
easily documented, and has been. Besides, if that is
the only argument 'ANCA' has for thousands of
scholarly sources regarding the unspeakable crimes of
the Armenians, why even bother? Finally, if 'ANCA'
prefers to imagine that the 'Armenian Sources' are
trying to mislead their readers, be my guest.


On the Wealth of Armenians

From: NICK
(Guestbook commentator; excerpts)
Date: 11/23/1999

OK Frank. So tell me exactly where I lied. I did a critique on some WWI propaganda masquerading as fact and "literature". The quotes I use from Morgenthau and Bryce are avarage not exceptional. Of course, you don't object because you agree with them. I tell you, I wish I did get a cheque from someone- judging how much I rattle your cage I am worth quite a bit. I am sorry Frank but I am not convinced about your grandfather's cousins being forced into harems- you have harems on the brain. As far as wealth is concerned Frank — how were Armenians allowed to become so wealthy if the atmosphere was so oppressive? You, and many others — including your guru Morgenthau — make the assumption that Armenians were wealthier because of an inherent racial/ social superiority of Armenians. All your postings in several forums indicate this clearly. However — have a crack at giving me a credible reason for the comparative wealth of Armenians.

You are just so steeped in your mythology you can't see the facts. The "Red Sultan" is a case in point — this is a caricature of the "lustful Turk". Nobody ever claimed that the Ottoman Empire was a paragon of social and civic virtue. But then it was not the demonic hell hole you portray it to be either. It has been the stereotypical and comic book level of history that has made me doubt genocide in the first place — and that has not changed. In fact, it has become stronger. I have said — and I repeat myself once again — that if the argument was that Armenians suffered a catastrophe that was genocidal in scope then no one would be arguing. But that is not what is being said. Produce the documents Frank — not some poxy photos, not some "evidence" from deeply prejudiced sources, not some gross exaggeration (10,000 drowned in an afternoon!!). No one denies that Armenians suffered terribly or were victims of massacre. The question is was it policy or anarchy? And let's admit to the activity of Armenian irregulars and revolutionaries while we are at it.


(Nick has gone on to write beautiful new commentaries featured on TAT.)

The Armenian Revolutionaries — 1895


A retired British journalist writes a "Letter to The Editor"
(of an unknown publication)

In a letter to the Marquis of Salisbury (Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs) Mr. G. Hagopian, chairman of the Armenian Patriotic Association in London, dated June 10th, 1892, went at great length to convey the grievances of the Armenians in Turkey. Of course, nowhere did he mention the activities of the Hentschakist Revolutionary Committee. This group, with officers in London and Athens, sent agents to form small revolutionary bands in eastern Turkey and these, together with money, arms and ammunition supplied by Russians, were responsible for much of the civil upheaval there.

The Turkish Historical Society published in 1989 "British Documents on Ottoman Armenians" in four volumes edited by Bilal N. Simsir (ISBN 975-16-009-X). This account is accessed from the British Records Office and consists of telegrams and letters from diplomatic Staff in eastern Turkey to the ambassador in Istanbul, who summarized them before forwarding to the government in London. There is no fiction here; it is all authentic reporting from the field and makes for fascinating reading. During the 1890s, Armenian disturbances became almost the order of the day in the Ottoman dominions. The British Foreign Office was anxious to keep a close watch on any disturbances, occurring on the borders between the Ottoman Empire and Russia, which might upset the delicate balance of that area. The Russians believed that disorder in Eastern Anatolia could only be to their advantage and encouraged the Russian Armenians to involve themselves in rebellion. The British Consul General D. C. W. Wilson wrote that the Armenians knew well that their shrewdness, their love of
falsehood, of espionage and of intrigue and their unbounded covetousness were highly appreciated by Russia. An unfortunate incident occurred at Marsovan in March 1893, which gave rise to strong anti-Turk sentiments in the U.S. An unfinished building adjacent to the U.S. Anatolian College for girls was burnt down. Local people alleged that it had been used as a meeting place for Armenian revolutionaries and a storage place for arms and ammunition. The reports of the fire were asked for in parliament.

In response to pressure from Britain, France and Russia, Sultan Abdulhamid set up a reform plan to address the Armenian grievances. The Armenians were not in the least satisfied with these reforms and continued their revolutionary activities. In September 1895 the Hintchak Committee organized a bloody demonstration in the Ottoman capital with the object of causing disorder, inducing the powers of Europe to intervene on behalf of
the Armenians. During the demonstration, Armenians fired the first shots, killing an army major and several privates. Then police intervened, and in the following battle, 60 Armenians and 15 gendarmes were killed and 100 people wounded. For a number of days following this exchange, incidents continued all over Istanbul. The Armenian revolutionaries were doing their best to incite incidents throughout Anatolia and in all the incidents
the aggressors were Armenians

W. J. D. Berry
Retired British journalist living in Turkey
Setur Marina, Antalya
9 May 2003 , Copyright C Turkish Daily News

Terrorist Membership

The ARF (Dashnaks) claimed a membership of 165,000 in 1907.

Fédération Arménienne Révolutionnaire, Rapport présenté au Bureau Socialiste Internationale (Stuttgart, 1907), pp. 22-23. From Walter Guinness' "Impressions of Armenia and Kurdistan," National Review, LXII (Jan 1914)

100,000 Dashnaks in 1910 Bitlis.

Nowadays, the membership of the Tachnaktzoutioun in Sassoun, in the Sandjak, the Valley of Mouche, the Cazas of Boulanik, Ahlat and Malazguerd an in the city of Bitlis, reaches about 100,000. The principal chief of this organization in the interior of the vilayet is Carmen, otherwise called Karnik.

The central seat of this committee with 100,000 members is at Mouche. This organization is divided into 20 committees, 100 subcommittees and 8,000 groups. Consequently, each group numbers about 10 to 12 members. One hundred to a thousand Armenians form a subcommittee, and from 1 to 5,000 form a committee. The central seat is at Mouche, and the Tachnaktzoutioun section in the city and the valley of Mouche, Boulanik and Malazguerd, and the city and neighborhood of Bitlis are attacked to this center. All the members of the Tachnaktzoutioun have to pay a monthly subscription ranging between 10 paras and one piastre. It is believed that, in this respect, merely in the vilayet of Bitlis, this organization has an annual income of 1 to 1,500 pounds Turkish. (I)

The money thus collected by each group or committee is sent to Western Office of the Tachnaktzoutioun, in Geneva, the latter spending it according to the directions issued by the High Tachnakist Committee of Switzerland.

REPORT BY THE RUSSIAN CONSUL IN BITLIS. Dated 3 rd December, 1910. No. 602. As included in THE WORLD WAR AND THE TURCO-ARMENIAN QUESTION, Ahmed Rustem Bey, Former Turkish Ambassador in Washington, Berne, 1918.

The Armenians love to cite the findings of the Ottoman kangaroo courts under Allied control as proof of their beloved genocide. If the findings of these courts are valid, then perhaps we should also look at the findings that are not very complimentary toward the Armenians.

According to the the Verdict ("Kararname") of the Turkish Military Tribunal on July 5, 1919 (that is, the verdict of the court martial conducted by the puppet Ottoman Turkish government against the perpetrators of the Armenian Genocide), first published in the Official Gazette (Takvim-i-Vekayi), No. 3604:

Armenian fedayis ate hundreds of Turkish children during the period of October 1913 ( first reported cannibalism ) to June 1922. The general Armenian population reportedly approved of this barbaric act. In fact, young Armenian children carried the ears of eaten children as trophies. Turkish children in the region of Van (Eastern Turkey ) suffered the most.

Henry Morganthau said in private to American officials:

"The Armenians snap, or rather they eat, the hands that feed them."

Officials of foreign states who were reportedly aware of Armenian cannibalism:

Mustafa Kemal Ataturk; Otto Liman Von Sanders (German Field-Marshall); Baron Von Wagenheim (German Ambassador); Henry Morganthau (American Ambassador); Sir Louis Mallet (British Ambassador); Edmund George Fitzmaurice (British Dragoman); others.

The Young Turk government was reportedly appalled by these atrocities of the Armenians, having learned of the cannibalism and the rape of Turkish women by Armenian freedom fighters.
These atrocities occurred long before the Armenian claim of Genocide.

Holdwater: Unlike Armenian and Greek sites, which go out of their way to include anything that damns the Turks regardless of the facts, I would not have included such a sensational claim were there not a verifiable, specific source. Myself, I don't give much credence to anything produced by the puppet Ottoman military courts, but since Armenians like Vahakn Dadrian swear by them, it's only fair to include the findings of these courts, across the board. This information was provided by "Ismet the Historian," a Turkish source.

If Ambassador Henry "Holier-than-Thou" Morganthau really was aware of this little hobby of the Armenians, assuming it's true, that sure casts a whole new light on the chapter of his Frank Pallone (a congressional synonym to the rhyme word, "baloney") book where he held the Armenians up to such inscrutable light, to the effect of their being "cheerful in adversity, meek, selfless and sustained by their Christian faith." Is it possible Henry didn't believe in all the lies his ghostwriter was instructed to fashion?


I'd imagine much of this cannibalism was not for reasons of a bizarre, cherished ritual, but out of necessity. Many of the Armenians who died did not do so from massacres or the forced relocating, but because of starvation and disease... particularly going back and forth across the Russian border, as the fortunes of war dictated. Some of these Armenians had to resort to cannibalism to survive.

ADDENDUM, 12-06:

ADDENDUM, 4-07: The version above is from
 The New York Times, Aug. 19, 1916

Looks as though my suspicions were on the right track; the highlights for what follows are Holdwater's. The Fitchburg Daily Sentinel, Aug. 18, 1916, "TERRIBLE TALES: Armenian Refugees Made Homeless by Germany's Ally, Eating Their Children. Boston, Aug. 18. — A statement describing the hardships suffered by Armenian refugees in Northern Arabia was made public today by Rev. Dr. James L. Barton, chairman of the Armenian committee .for Armenian and Syrian relief. Dr. Barton said that the statement came from an eyewitness, not an American, and could be depended upon as unexaggerated. The eyewitness said that of 3500 deported Armenians at Meskene a part had found employment, but the rest were begging...

"'In Sepka a preacher from Aintab told me that parents have often killed their children. At the government investigation it was shown that some people had eaten their children.'"

Reader Gokalp pointed to several verses from biblegateway.com and wondered if God may have been getting back at the Armenians for sinfully stabbing their fellow Ottomans in the back?

You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters. (Leviticus 26:29)

Therefore in your midst fathers will eat their children, and children will eat their fathers. I will inflict punishment on you and will scatter all your survivors to the winds. (Ezekiel 5:10)

Golden Genocidal Nuggets from the Rank and File
Choice Comments from an Armenian Guestbook/Forum


January 31 2003, 1:48 PM

By the way, i have seen many posts here about assyrian genocide, let me make it clear for you my friends. There was no assyrian genocide, the assyrians in turkey became muslims during the genocide, they even helped the turks to locate the places were Armenian mothers and children were hiding. This is the words of my grandfather who witnessed everything and survived the genocide as a little kid while his whole family was massacred.

Dont ever compare the Armenian misery whit the assyrians. No one but Armenians had the faith and the balls to fight against the kurds and turks.

Just an example, i know many assyrians from turkey who says that they were massacred too, but their grandparents parents are still alive, how come.


G. Rabinovitz

January 31 2003

I, too, don't like to be judgmental.

But, to be fair, I can't help noticing, that all out-cry about "assyrian genocide", "hellenic genocide", "pontos genocide", "kurdish genocide", etc. came out only AFTER we, Armenians, had our partial success over the world.

Where was this "powerful Greek lobby", that "helps Armenians in their cause" in 60s, or in 70s, or, even, in 80?

Where was "assyrian powerful lobby" in the same period? Or kurdish?

Nowhere! We were alone, we even didn't have our independent country and still were successful. So, there are a lot of qestions regarding current formula of "christian genocide" in turkey. Not substantively, but on its face, on its name. Are they being sincere, fellow Greeks and Assyrians? Or all they want is to have a "foot in the door" in case Armenians win the case, which they don't really care about, so they'll be entitled to some pay-off? That's what I don't like.

However, no objection to a cumulative efforts, per se. The more claims are posed aginst turks, the more chances all of us (greeks, assyrians, armos) have.


G. Rabinovitz

January 31 2003

Assyrians were 3 million befroe WWI, today they are 300 thousand. I don't count Chaldeans of Iraq and Aramays of Syria and Lebanon. Those stend together at about 2 million. Bt they weren't sloughtered. While Assyrians did!

3 million Assyrian figure is not excegerration, it's the real one, not affected by turkish propaganda. As well as 6 million Armenians of ottoman empire before the WWI, not 2 million, as turkish "statistics" put it.

jews are the biggest basterds of them all.. They helped the turks slaughter Armenians....

im a little curious why Armenia doesnt have a stronger alliance with the Greeks.


Ann Frankenstein

"im a little curious why Armenia doesnt have a stronger alliance with the Greeks."

AF> Maybe it's because the Greeks fked us too along with the rest when they signed the Lausanne treaty. We can't trust anyone!

Holdwater: Uhhh... at least the Greeks waited three years after the Treaty of Sevres, to sign their "Treaty of Betrayal." The Armenians signed theirs only four months later! I'm sorry, Ms. Frankenstein, but in this particular Orthodox race of holding off Turkish Evil, the Greeks have emerged as the clear-cut champion.

Ann Frankenstein


Armeni-lemmings simply
cannot utilize independent
and objective thought;
they only know how to
follow their leaders...
sometimes off cliffs.

"If It wasn`t for the jews their would have never been a Armenian genocide... You think the imbicle turks all my themselves could have pulled of a Genocide of this magnitude? Ataturk the father of a turks was also a jew...."

AF> The turks wouldn't never have wanted to commit a genocide on the Armenians, because they were happy living off the Armenians. As a matter of fact, sultan Suleyman wanted to show his gratitude to the Armenians and when he asked them what he could give them, they asked for only a small piece of land in Jerusalem to build a Church. It was only after the filthy kikes came from spain and saw what they could steal that our troubles started.



February 1 2003, 9:19 AM

I didnt post this about assyrians because they are semits or whatever. i am not a racist, and there is many semites among Armenians. also we should not blame the muslims, cause if it wasnt for the muslim syrians many of our grandparents would have died.

But still there was no assyrian genocide, some assyrians died during the genocide but it wasnt a genocide against them. there is a big assyrian community in Sweden and most of them are from turkey. They accepted the turkish rules and became turks.

An assyrian/syrian saying: An Armenian is 5 times worse than an jew. if you slaughter an jew, you get 5 Armenians.

They dont like our patriotism, our freedom spirit and our intelligence. Sad but true.

There is of course many assyrians who are decent people.



This is not the place to coverup the crimes of jews... Go to the Hye forum... It is a know fact Ataturk was a jews and the majority of the Young Turks who planned the were jews.. We have proof you have hot air..


Holdwater: I hope you've been keeping notes; let me summarize what we have learned. (For one thing, races that deserve contempt don't get their names capitalized.)

1) There was no Assyrian genocide. (Lord have MERCY! Who would'a thunk it would have been Armenians to blow the lid off that other myth?)

2) Armenians should not object even if there was no Assyrian genocide, because "The more claims are posed aginst turks," the better chance all genocide claimants can have. In other words, making the Turks look evil, this time via "cumulative efforts," always takes precedence over the Truth. (Good of G. Rabinowitz to admit out loud what we already so well know.)

3) The reason for these "cumulative efforts" is really to get "some pay-off." (Well! We know Armenians are always hungry for hand-outs,  as American Army Colonel William Haskell found out... when he was sent to Armenia as the High Commissioner for Relief, a position which he resigned in disgust in 1920, concluding the Armenians were "ungrateful, professional beggars.")

4) Turkish "statistics" are way off base when they claim there were only "two million" Armenians in the Ottoman Empire, when everyone knows there were SIX million Ottoman-Armenians. (I haven't got the heart to tell G. Rabinowitz there were around 1.5 million Armenians. I have a feeling he just wouldn't believe the cold, hard, neutral facts staring him in the face.)

5) Gestures of kindness by the Sultan must be interpreted as proof of the Armenians' exploitation.

6) The Jews are the Armenians' worst nightmare. (Funny, among certain Jews, I thought it would have been the other way around.)

7) The Young Turks and Ataturk were all from the ranks of the Chosen people. Gentlemen, PLEASE. No need to get your panties in a bunch... it may not be that these Turks were Jews, but that many Jews (ironically, of the generally Turk-disliking variety, the Ashkenazim, and not the generally Turk-liking variety, the Sephardim) were and are Turks. (Regardless, don't tell Israel Charny, as he might have a heart attack... while he bends over backwards, defending the Armenians.)


Why do the French Always Suck Up to the Armenians? *
* Not Unlike the Americans?

According to Armenian ambassador to France Eduard Nalbandian, the Armenian community of France is the biggest in Europe. Speaking to a group of Armenian journalists, who flew to Paris by the maiden Yerevan-Paris flight, operated by the recently set up Armenian International Airlines company, the ambassador said that according to different estimations, some 500,000 French citizens are of Armenian origin. Some 80,000 Armenians live in one of the biggest cities, Marseilles, which has a total of 800,000 population, which means that every tenth resident of the city is Armenian.

There are villages and small towns in which every fifth resident is Armenian. According to the ambassador, Armenians have established in all society layers. Armenians are among politicians, art, culture and business communities members. Head of one of the biggest companies, Alcatel, is also of Armenian origin.

There are some 200 students from Armenia proper studying at French universities. The community attaches great attention to educational issues. All in all French Armenians are united in 450 organizations, but in many issues they replicate each other, dispersing thus their efforts.

The ambassador said a coordinating committee was recently founded to make their efforts and work more purposeful.

The Armenian community of France is closely following all the developments occurring in Armenia. Positive changes are reported by local Armenian newspapers. At the end of his meeting with Armenian journalists the ambassador stressed the importance of the new flight between the capitals of Armenia and France.

(Source Unknown)





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...Is to expose the mythological “Armenian genocide,” from the years 1915-16. A wartime tragedy involving the losses of so many has been turned into a politicized story of “exclusive victimhood,” and because of the prevailing prejudice against Turks, along with Turkish indifference, those in the world, particularly in the West, have been quick to accept these terribly defamatory claims involving the worst crime against humanity. Few stop to investigate below the surface that those regarded as the innocent victims, the Armenians, while seeking to establish an independent state, have been the ones to commit systematic ethnic cleansing against those who did not fit into their racial/religious ideal: Muslims, Jews, and even fellow Armenians who had converted to Islam. Criminals as Dro, Antranik, Keri, Armen Garo and Soghoman Tehlirian (the assassin of Talat Pasha, one of the three Young Turk leaders, along with Enver and Jemal) contributed toward the deaths (via massacres, atrocities, and forced deportation) of countless innocents, numbering over half a million. What determines genocide is not the number of casualties or the cruelty of the persecutions, but the intent to destroy a group, the members of which are guilty of nothing beyond being members of that group. The Armenians suffered their fate of resettlement not for their ethnicity, having co-existed and prospered in the Ottoman Empire for centuries, but because they rebelled against their dying Ottoman nation during WWI (World War I); a rebellion that even their leaders of the period, such as Boghos Nubar and Hovhannes Katchaznouni, have admitted. Yet the hypocritical world rarely bothers to look beneath the surface, not only because of anti-Turkish prejudice, but because of Armenian wealth and intimidation tactics. As a result, these libelous lies, sometimes belonging in the category of “genocide studies,” have become part of the school curricula of many regions. Armenian scholars such as Vahakn Dadrian, Peter Balakian, Richard Hovannisian, Dennis Papazian and Levon Marashlian have been known to dishonestly present only one side of their story, as long as their genocide becomes affirmed. They have enlisted the help of "genocide scholars," such as Roger Smith, Robert Melson, Samantha Power, and Israel Charny… and particularly  those of Turkish extraction, such as Taner Akcam and Fatma Muge Gocek, who justify their alliance with those who actively work to harm the interests of their native country, with the claim that such efforts will help make Turkey more" democratic." On the other side of this coin are genuine scholars who consider all the relevant data, as true scholars have a duty to do, such as Justin McCarthy, Bernard Lewis, Heath Lowry, Erich Feigl and Guenter Lewy. The unscrupulous genocide industry, not having the facts on its side, makes a practice of attacking the messenger instead of the message, vilifying these professors as “deniers” and "agents of the Turkish government." The truth means so little to the pro-genocide believers, some even resort to the forgeries of the Naim-Andonian telegrams or sources  based on false evidence, as Franz Werfel’s The Forty Days of Musa Dagh. Naturally, there is no end to the hearsay "evidence" of the prejudiced pro-Christian people from the period, including missionaries and Near East Relief representatives, Arnold Toynbee, Lord Bryce, Lloyd George, Woodrow Wilson, Theodore Roosevelt, and so many others. When the rare Westerner opted to look at the issues objectively, such as Admirals Mark Bristol and Colby Chester, they were quick to be branded as “Turcophiles” by the propagandists. The sad thing is, even those who don’t consider themselves as bigots are quick to accept the deceptive claims of Armenian propaganda, because deep down people feel the Turks are natural killers and during times when Turks were victims, they do not rate as equal and deserving human beings. This is the main reason why the myth of this genocide has become the common wisdom.