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Thanks to the reader who brought the documents featured on this page to my
attention.
Carlos W. Porter has taken the trouble to dig up original Nuremberg and other
documents, and has made available the papers containing the infamous
"Hitler quote" (The old "who remembers the extermination of
the Armenians" bit, that people to this day still dumbly point to as
"genocide evidence." The Hitler quote has been examined at length on
TAT's Hitler Quote page.)
Now who is going to take the trouble to dig up such documents, unless they
have issues with the Holocaust? Mr. Porter is evidently one of these people,
and I have general reservations about such views, because I can't see how
anyone can doubt that the Holocaust took place; it was the genocide that made
the mold for genocides.
On the other hand, I have become acquainted with the tricks genocide fanciers
have used, and my philosophy is very much as Prof. Dreyer so intelligently
wrote:
Pigs will fly when Warren Kinsella
learns to curb his talent for the ad hominem rant. In this column he
justifies the punishment of Holocaust deniers because Holocaust deniers
are rabid neo-Nazis. What they say is not necessarily wrong, perhaps,
but it is said for bad reasons. What then can justify the punishment of
someone who might say it for better reasons? Like all ad hominem
artists, Mr Kinsella attacks not the merit of the argument but the merit
of the arguer. Mr. Kinsella's facts may be right. His logic is stupid.
In the real world, bad people sometimes say things that are true and
good people sometimes say things that are false. I think the Holocaust
did in fact happen and the evidence for it is compelling. But anything
that can be proven with reference to evidence can also be disproven if
different evidence turns up. The punishment of Holocaust deniers
ultimately threatens the credibility of the Holocaust as a verifiable
event. Like all other historical events, it can defend itself without
the help of the policeman.
Frederick Dreyer, professor
emeritus, Department of History, University of Western Ontario, London,
Ont.
(On February 23, 2006, Canada's National
Post had published an op-ed by Warren Kinsella entitled "Why
Irving Can't Be Ignored." On February 24, the Post included the
above letter to the editor in response.)
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In other words, Mr. Porter's views on the Holocaust are not relevant, as far
as considering this evidence. Frankly, we owe him thanks for digging up this
extremely valuable material.
Mr. Porter has written, regarding the "Hitler Quote" documents:
1014-PS is a falsified 'Hitler Speech' written on plain paper by an
unknown person. The document bears the heading 'Second Speech' although it is
known that Hitler gave only one speech on that date. There are four versions
of this speech, 3 of them forgeries: 1014-PS, 798-PS, L-3, and an authentic
version, Ra-27 (XVII-406-408; XVIII 390-402; XXII 65). The third forgery,
Document L-3, bears an FBI laboratory stamp and was never even accepted into
evidence (II 286), but 250 copies of it were given to the press as authentic
(II 286).
This document is quoted by A. J. P. Taylor on page 254 of The Origins of the
Second World War (Fawcett Paperbacks, 2nd Edition, with Answer to his Critics)
giving his source as German Foreign Policy, Series D vii, No 192 and 193.
L-3 is the source of many statements attributed to Hitler, particularly
"who today remembers the fate of the Armenians?" and "our
enemies are little worms, I saw them at Munich". 'Hitler' also compares
himself to Genghis Khan and says he will exterminate the Poles, and kick
Chamberlain in the groin in front of the photographers. The document appears
to have been prepared on the same typewriter as many other Nuremberg
documents, including the two other versions of the same speech. This
typewriter was probably a Martin from the Triumph-Adler-Werke, Nuremberg.
Porter has more to say on his site's page devoted to "L-3":
www.cwporter.com/gl3.htm; the reader can also check out the "super
duper" sized versions of the documents below.
Above is the certificate signed by Paul A. Joosten, the
General Secretary
at Nuremberg certifying the authenticity of "L-3."
Fred A. Niebergall, chief of the Document Control Branch,
certifying that
the pages seen below are a "true and correct copy of the original."
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Originals of "L-3," or the "Lochner" version of the "Hitler
Quote" |
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The Translation
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On the page shedding light about himself, Carlos Porter
claims:
I am a professional translator of German, French, Italian, Spanish, and
Portuguese into English. I have translated thousands of commercial, legal,
financial, and technical documents for over 100 commercial clients in several
different European countries.
Here was his stab at what the above German words signified, as provided on this page of his
site:
[Note: this translation attempts to retain the style and
punctuation of the original, which is not correct in German: full space before
colons and commas, no full space before following word. The document contains not
one single sharp S (ß), a standard letter in the German alphabet.]
Content of Speech to the Supreme Commanders and Commanding Generals.
Obersalzberg ,22.8.39
Decision to attack Poland in the spring.Originally fear ,that due to political
constellations I would have to act against England ,Russia ,France ,Poland , at the
same time.Even this risk could have been tolerated.Goering has after all said ,that
the Four Year Plan has failed and that we are finished ,if no victory in coming war.
Since autumn of 1938 ,and since then ,I have recognized that Japan would not go with
us unconditionally and Mussolini is threatened by the imbecile of a king and the
traitorous rascals of crown princes ,decision ,to go with Stalin.Basically only
three great statesmen in the world ,Stalin ,myself ,and Mussolini.Mussolini the
weakest ,has been unable to break the power of either the crown ,or the
church.Stalin and myself the only ones ,who can only see the future.Thus I will
extend my hand to Stalin on the German-Russian border in a few weeks and undertake a
redivision of the world with him. Our strength is our rapidity and our
brutality.Ghengis Khan sent millions of women and children to their deaths
,consciously and with a joyous heart.History sees in him only the greatest founder
of a state.What weak Western European civilization says about me ,is meaningless.I
have given the order ,and I will have anyone shot who expresses even one word of
criticism ,that the war aim lies not in the attainment of certain lines ,but in the
physical destruction of the adversary.So I have ,first only in the East ,prepared my
Death's Heads divisions with the order to send men ,women and children of Polish
descent mercilessly and pitilessly to their deaths.Only thus will we win the living
space that we need.Who still speaks today of the extermination of the Armenians?
Coronel General von Brauchitsch has promised me ,to bring the war against Poland to
a close in a few weeks.If he had told me ,I needed two years ,or only one year to do
it ,I would not have given the order to march and temporarily allied myself
[sentence runs off page]
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and temporarily allied myself with England instead of Russia.Since we cannot carry on a
long war.At any rate ,a new situation is now created.The miserable worms Daladier and
Chamberlain ,I experienced them at Munich.They will be too cowardly to attack.They will
not go beyond a blockade.Against that ,we have our autarchy and the Russian raw
materials.Poland will be emptied of its population and settled with Germans.My pact with
Poland was only intended to gain time .And furthermore , gentlemen ,the only thing to do
with Russia is the same thing ,that I have succeeded in doing with Poland.After Stalin's
death ,he is a seriously ill man ,we will smash the Soviet Union.Then the German hegemony
over the world will arise. The small states cannot scare me.After Kemal's death ,Turkey is
being governed by cretins and half-idiots.Carol of Rumania is a complete slave of his
sexual drives.The king of Belgium and the northern kings are weak jumping-jacks ,dependent
upon the good digestion of their exploited and exhausted populations. We must accept the
loss of Japan.I gave Japan a whole year's time.The Emperor is equivalent to the last
Czar.Weak ,cowardly ,indecisive.May he fall victim to the revolution.My cooperation with
Japan was never popular.We will furthermore tie up the unrest in the Far East and in
Arabia.Let us think as masters and let us see in these people only painted half-apes at
best ,who wish to feel the knout. The opportunity is favourable as never before.I have
only one fear ,that Chamberlain or some other pig will come to me with peace proposals and
capitulation at the last moment.He will fly down the stairs.Even if I have to kick him in
the stomach before the eyes of the photographers. No ,it is too late for that.The attack
and the destruction of Poland begins early Sunday.I will have a few companies in Polish
uniforms attack in Upper Silesia or in the Protectorate.Whether the world believes me ,
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Page 3
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[FBI Laboratory stamp]
is indifferent .[scheissegal, spelled with double s instead
of sharp S, roughly equivalent to "I don't give a schidt", in English.]
The world only believes in success. For you ,gentlemen ,fame and honour are awaiting
as they never have for centuries.Be hard ,be unsparing ,act more quickly and more
brutally than the others.The citizens of Western Europe must tremble from fear.That
is the most human manner of waging war.Since it deters them. The new waging of war
corresponds to the border arrangement .A wall from Reval ,Lublin ,Kaschau ,to the
mouth of the Danube .The Russians will get the rest.Ribbentrop has been instructed
to make every offer and to accept every proposal.In the West I reserve the option of
determining the best line strategically.Here ,we will have to work with
protectorates ,perhaps Holland ,Belgium ,French-Lorraine. And now :go get the enemy!
We will celebrate our next meeting in Warsaw!
The speech was received with enthusiasm.Goering climbed upon on the table.
Bloodthirsty thanks and bloodthirsty promises.He danced around like a wild man.The
few (!) doubters kept silent.
[Part of "speech" crudely cut out with pair of
scissors, probably to conceal something handwritten on the reverse side of the
page.]
While eating ,Hitler also said that he must act this year ,since he would not live
very much longer.His successor however could do no more ,and furthermore ,the
situation would be desperate in two years at most.
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| COMMENTS BY
OTHER AUTHORS ON DOCUMENT L-3: |
(Commentary from Porter's web site continues)
DAVID IRVING, NUREMBERG: THE LAST BATTLE: p. 100: …”[the letter] ‘L’ signified a
document from London, like the now-famous forgery 003-L, the report on Hitler’s speech
to his generals on August 22, 1939, which the anti-Nazi opposition had fed to Associated
Press journalist Louis Lochner in Berlin.”
DAVID L. HOGGAN: THE FORCED WAR, p. 472: “One version of these conferences [August 22,
1939] was presented by Louis P. Lochner of the American Associated Press to British
diplomats at Berlin as a valid record of the conferences, and it consciously or
unconsciously influenced the thinking of British diplomats at the time. Otherwise, it
would have been dismissed as too ridiculous to receive serious consideration. The crass
propaganda in the material would have been immediately discarded had people been permitted
to think normally about important issues. Unfortunately, a furious and uninterrupted war
propaganda campaign had been carried on in the West for more than five months, and nearly
everyone, regardless of his mental calibre, had been seriously affected.
“Why would anyone believe that Marshal Goering danced on the table and shrieked like a
savage before a group of austere German generals? Why would Hitler blandly announce to his
Generals that ‘Goering had demonstrated to us that his Four-Year Plan is a failure and
that we are at the end of our strength, if we do not achieve victory in a coming war?’
This sounded more like a leaf from the book of President Roosevelt, who, unlike Hitler,
was still facing a catastrophic depression. The statement would be sheer nonsense when
applied to war with poverty-stricken Poland. Every informed person, including Lord
Halifax, knew that Goering was the last person in Germany who would deliver arguments in
favour of a general war at this time [footnote 50: J.W. Wheeler-Burnett, Nemesis of Power,
New York, 1954, pp. 446-449, W.L. Langer and S.E. Gleason, The Challenge to Isolation,
1937-1940, New York, 1952, pp. 181-182].
“The memorandum stated that Hitler told his Generals he planned to kill the Polish women
and children. This would have been proper material for an American ‘comic book’, and
also for Hitler, if his purpose had been to goad his Generals into an immediate revolt
against the German regime. The memorandum claimed that Germany could not hold out in a
long war, but added in the same paragraph that ‘Poland will be depopulated and settled
with Germans’. The memorandum also claimed that Stalin was very sick, and that Germany
would dismember Russia after his death.
“Succinct and reliable references to the meeting of August 22, 1939 are available from
the actual participants. The traditions of popular journalism cannot excuse people, from
any country, who seek to precipitate war by spreading lies when feeling is running high
[Footnote 51: British Foreign Policy, III, vol. 7, no. 314; for reliable records, see
especially Raeder Diaries, Washington D.C., and the account by Admiral Boehm, Washington
D.C.]
[In the German-language version of Hoggans’ work, DER ERZWUNGENE KRIEG, see p. 624.]
Final note by C. Porter: one of the many absurdities contained in this document is the
claim that Ghenghis Khan founded a great state. Everybody knows this is not true. It
occurs to me that the myth of the attack on the Gleiwitz radio station was, in fact, an
attempt to shore up the credibility of this document (or perhaps the other way around).
Hitler never made any authentic reference to the Gleiwitz incident as a cause of the war.
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Holdwater's thoughts
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We have all heard of David Irving, who has become practically
a cartoon figure... but I had no idea of who David Hoggan was. After a little
looking around, it seems he shares the same league, described as a trail-blazing
"Holocaust denier."
At any rate, our job is to analyze whether the "Lochner" version of the
"Hitler quote" makes sense or not, and if the thoughts of these two
"controversial historians" shed logical light, that is all that matters
for our purposes here.
As Prof. Heath Lowry wrote in his masterful analysis ("The U.S. Congress and
Adolf Hitler on the Armenians"):
The noted historian of the Second World War, William Shirer, reconstructed his
account of the Obersalzberg meeting strictly on the basis of the Boehm notes, the
Halder diary, and the captured memorandum. In explaining his failure to incorporate
the “Lochner version,” he wrote with characteristic understatement, “it may
have been embellished a little by persons who were not present at the meeting at the
Berghof.”
William Shirer wrote The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich (New York: Simon
and Schuster, 1960), and analyzed the Lochner version on p. 529.
The document speaks for itself. There is plenty that sounds absolutely silly,
not just the "Armenians" part. Let's focus on that very part, from above:
So I have, first only in
the East, prepared my Death's Heads divisions with the order to send men ,women and
children of Polish descent mercilessly and pitilessly to their deaths. Only thus
will we win the living space that we need. Who still speaks today of the
extermination of the Armenians? Colonel General von Brauchitsch has promised me...
It's like the "Armenians" line was inserted, and comes out of nowhere,
doesn't it? No relation to the sentence coming immediately before, or after.
And it's not like Hitler would have needed to ease the consciences of his generals,
during this speech... or to "talk them into" joining him with his war
plans.
It is truly amazing that this obvious forgery is still receiving the attention that
it does.
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ADDENDUM:
Transcript of Nuremberg Session, May 17, 1946 |
The following transcript may be read in full at the relevant
page of the Nizkor Project. (nizkor.org)
Its home page blares: "Dedicated to 12 million Holocaust victims who suffered and
died at the hands of Adolf Hitler and his Nazi regime"; I had wondered whether
this might be another "Holocaust denial" site, but it is exactly the reverse. We
are further instructed: "Nizkor is a Hebrew word which means 'We will
remember.'"
Before we continue, we are also told: "The real purpose of holocaust revisionism
is to make National Socialism an acceptable political alternative again."
If that's the case, and since pro-Armenians love to draw up parallels with the Holocaust,
what is the "real purpose of Armenian genocide revisionism"? To make
Ottomanism an acceptable political alternative?
Let's be very honest here; if there is any revisionism, it is on the part of the Armenian
propagandists. Remember, after the war, the Armenians stressed
their belligerence and what loyal allies they (in the case of Ottoman-Armenians;
but practically all the dispersed Armenians were from the Ottoman Empire, a short
while previous) were to the enemies of their Ottoman nation, and not "genocide."
Already, such a political alliance makes them exempt from the rules of genocide, as per
the 1948 U.N. Convention. It is the Armenian propagandists that are distorting the actual
historical realities, for their own warped agendas. The only purpose of a site like TAT is
to let the real truth be known, and to correct the Armenian propagandists' horrible
falsehoods and revisionism.
Getting back to the transcript, here are the key elements:
Sitting at Nuremberg, Germany
14th May to 24th May, 1946
One Hundred and Thirty-Second Day: Friday, 17th May, 1946
(Part 1 of 7)
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[Page 130]
THE PRESIDENT: The Tribunal have given careful and prolonged attention to the
consideration of the documents offered by Dr. Siemers on behalf of the defendant Raeder;
and they, therefore, do not wish the documents which they propose to admit to be read,
because they have already read them all.
I will now deal with the documents individually.
Document 66 is admitted for the purposes of argument, and not as evidence.
Document 101 is denied.
Documents 102 to 105 are admitted.
(etcetera; the listing of rejected and accepted documents
continues.)
The prosecution may, if they wish it, apply to cross-examine the witness who made that
document.
THE TRIBUNAL (Mr. Biddle): That is Admiral Bohm.
[Page 131]
THE PRESIDENT: Admiral Bohm, yes.
Holdwater: It is interesting that Admiral Hermann Böhm, who had documented what sounds like the definitive version of Hitler's
speech (of the three "good" versions), was alive and present. He certainly could
have clarified the Armenian reference, but naturally that was not the purpose of the
Nuremberg proceedings.
The transcript continues:
I should also like to point out that L-3, to which Dr. Siemers made reference yesterday,
was offered only for identification, as the record shows for the proceedings of that day
on the 26th of November, and has been marked Exhibit USA 28 for identification only. Mr.
Alderman pointed out, as appears in the record, that he was not offering it in evidence,
that it was a paper which came into our hands originally through the services of a
newspaper man, and that, later on, Documents 798-PS and 1014-PS were found among captured
documents. They referred to the same speech in Obersalzberg. Mr. Alderman offered these
two at that time.
Holdwater: Alderman was the prosecutor. Note how the origin
of L-3 is being described, "offered only for identification," "not offering
into evidence," and originating from a "newspaper man" (which would be
Lochner).
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THE PRESIDENT: That all goes to the weight of the document, does it not. No doubt, a
document which is signed has more weight than a document which is not signed. All those
matters the Tribunal will take into account when considering the documents, but the
admissibility of the document depends upon its being a German document found and captured.
DR. SIEMERS: Mr. President, I wanted to say this only because it is unpleasant that the
American Delegation should misunderstand my motion concerning the document. I make no
charges concerning the manner in which the document was found, I merely say that it is
undecided among which papers it was found. I noticed that Mr. Dodd treated the three
documents concerned in exactly the same way, whilst Mr. Alderman stated that one of these
three documents, L-3, was evidently not in order because of its doubtful origin. And
therefore he withdrew it.
Holdwater: Of course, L-3 was unsigned
and, aside from the provided date of the speech itself, undated. Note how they are telling
us, logically, how comparatively flimsy such a document would be. And we know for a fact
that the phony Lochner version of this speech, L-3, was rejected at Nuremberg.
Please consult Dr. Heath Lowry's paper for more details on the trial transcript. (Link
below.)
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